ripsean21 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I personally believe this guy is not only a pro bowl Nickle CB. But IMO he is a top 2 Nickle CB in the league. I have been so happy with these last 3 draft classes and I personally think Fuller is going to be our future number 1. He reminds me of Casey Hayward as a Nickle guy that developed into a number 1 because good nickel guys really can be number 1 outside guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 He was my favorite pick of last years draft. Without the knee injury he's a top 25 pick and being a hokie fan I knew a lot about him already. I'm hoping the Bears let Kyle go so we can reunite the Fuller brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 He was high on my list too. Doctson was my guy along with Karl Joseph. I thought Doctson was the WR last season. I was also very high on Fuller!!! I was okay with taking him in the second with the injury so to steal him in the third was crazy. But Imo they did the same thing this year with Moreou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I think Fuller is definitely a starter next year and one of our starters won’t be back. It will likely be Breeland who will be gone but you just never know because the age/cost of Breeland is less than Norman but of course Norman is a better cb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy_29 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 @turtle28While we seem to agree that Norman needs to play better, there's a big difference between Breeland and Norman. The awareness level is on a whole different level. I liked Norman coming out, as many did around these parts. He's what you want to have in a CB1. You work with the draft to find a #2/3 who can elevate spots in time. The decision is almost assuredly made for most of these guys. Breeland has played against elite competition and come out on top. He's been nicked up, but also inconsistent. will get a better offer elsewhere than here because Fuller has played well and Moreau's talent might enable a second year jump akin to Fuller's. Bottom line is that Breeland should be able to get more money elsewhere. He's been playing next to someone who got paid, and he's going to want his. The positive in all this is that he should be strong down the stretch as he chases the pay day. The better Breeland plays, the more Fuller, Everett and Moreau will be targeted while on the field. No Breeland and Hall next season is not the worst thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 2 hours ago, footy_29 said: @turtle28While we seem to agree that Norman needs to play better, there's a big difference between Breeland and Norman. The awareness level is on a whole different level. I liked Norman coming out, as many did around these parts. He's what you want to have in a CB1. You work with the draft to find a #2/3 who can elevate spots in time. The decision is almost assuredly made for most of these guys. Breeland has played against elite competition and come out on top. He's been nicked up, but also inconsistent. will get a better offer elsewhere than here because Fuller has played well and Moreau's talent might enable a second year jump akin to Fuller's. Bottom line is that Breeland should be able to get more money elsewhere. He's been playing next to someone who got paid, and he's going to want his. The positive in all this is that he should be strong down the stretch as he chases the pay day. The better Breeland plays, the more Fuller, Everett and Moreau will be targeted while on the field. No Breeland and Hall next season is not the worst thing. I don’t disagree, I guess it’s just a tough decision for me because of Norman’s contract. Not being a QB, LT or pass rusher and making $20 million or near it just seems like too much $ to me especially when you have 4 players at the same position who are 4 years younger or more. They who certainly aren’t as good as Norman but also are capable of being above average. I believe we could save ourselves $10 million in cap space if we re-signed Breeland and moved on from Norman. With that $ we would have more $ to re-sign Cousins, Breeland, Long and sign a speedy WR to complement Doctson, a NT and ILB (maybe Brown). I know some will take this as me hating Norman but that’s not what it is. It’s about value and allocating your cap evenly especially when you have your qb not on his rookie deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSkin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Per over the Cap - Norman saves $8M in cap as a pre-June 1 2018 cut/trade but carries a $9M hit in dead money so that won't happen. However as a post-June 1 2018 cut/trade it's a $14M cap savings and dead money of $3M. They could also use the post-June 1 designee and make a move prior to June 1st. That might be palatable although still a pretty hefty hit on dead money. Norman hits the cap @ $17M next year. If they sign Kirk to a LTD he'll still hit it at a minimum of $25M & if they tag him it's about $35M or so. That's a range of around $40 to $50 million - for 2 guys. Something like a quarter of their total cap next year. OK, very rough numbers but they seem reasonable and it'll be hard to keep both. Maybe restructure/extend Norman or a cap friendly deal with Cousins, which doesn't seem likely. I think the Skins put themselves in a tuff negotiation spot with Kirk considering the 5 year/$75M deal they made with Norman but it is what it is. Fuller is cheap to keep & has really stepped up his game from last year so obviously he stays but outside of Breeland (UFA next season), if you remove Norman, there's a lot of youth that may or may not pan out. Bree will get over the $2M he got this year from somebody so either you keep him (how much?) or get a FA (how much?), draft a guy that can start (maybe?), or hope a guy on the roster stands up enough to fill at least one starting spot. Anyway, not trying to get into a debate about what anyone thinks they should do because of all the various scenario's one could come up with; just trying to layout the $$$. Over-the-Cap link on Norman: https://overthecap.com/player/josh-norman/1177/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mar29020 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 allen his so stupid man he never locks up the players early. he waits for them to blow up and we cant afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 4 hours ago, turtle28 said: I don’t disagree, I guess it’s just a tough decision for me because of Norman’s contract. Not being a QB, LT or pass rusher and making $20 million or near it just seems like too much $ to me especially when you have 4 players at the same position who are 4 years younger or more. They who certainly aren’t as good as Norman but also are capable of being above average. I believe we could save ourselves $10 million in cap space if we re-signed Breeland and moved on from Norman. With that $ we would have more $ to re-sign Cousins, Breeland, Long and sign a speedy WR to complement Doctson, a NT and ILB (maybe Brown). I know some will take this as me hating Norman but that’s not what it is. It’s about value and allocating your cap evenly especially when you have your qb not on his rookie deal. Our defense plays at another level when Norman is on the field. Also, the way his contract is structured he gets cheaper in future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 25 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Our defense plays at another level when Norman is on the field. Also, the way his contract is structured he gets cheaper in future years. Ehhh Minnesota & Saints games were our worst two of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleSkin Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 31 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Our defense plays at another level when Norman is on the field. Also, the way his contract is structured he gets cheaper in future years. Not a whole lot cheaper. His cap numbers to finish out his contract. Extend him and probably come out much better, if he's willing. 2018 $17M 2019 $14.5M 2020 $15.5M. http://Over-the-Cap link on Norman: https://overthecap.com/player/josh-norman/1177/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 26 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Ehhh Minnesota & Saints games were our worst two of the season. Injuries had more to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 I will say Minnesota was Norman’s worse game here! Understand he’s not perfect but that game he looked like crap. That said he’s a leader and he and Swearinger bring the type of attitudes this defense needs. And as Norman’s numbers go down the cap goes up. Fuller has the look of a future star! Bree has flashed but even at his best he doesn’t have the ball skills Fuller has displayed. He has two fumble recoveries and 4 int’s and I believe a Forced fumble. He tackles well . There’s a reason he was scouted as the best of the family and his brothers are pretty good in their own light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 11 hours ago, MKnight82 said: Injuries had more to do with that. True. I guess it just gets back to my thought that no player is worth what he’s getting paid unless it’s a QB. Norman is certainly a great player but it still bothers me a bit that a FA corner from another team got the long term big deal after the 2015 season and our franchise qb didn’t. Frankly, that’s a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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