Nnivolcm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: How do you post tweets on here? 😂 Click on the three dots in the upper right corner of a tweet, click on "</> Embed Tweet", copy the resulting web address, and paste in your narrative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) Nope 😂 Edited February 28, 2023 by Louis Friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 2/26/2023 at 4:28 PM, Louis Friend said: They were both brought in to be on field vet presence for the young players next to them. They used up cap space, like what we'd use to trade for Ramsey. I see Lions fans saying we shouldn't use cap space to sign him when we need small contracts, but vet presence for young players cost money. Ramseys cap numbers on the Rams is not what the Lions would be taking on for trading for him. Rams would eat his prorated signing bonus. Lions would pay $17 million this season. ($18 M in 24 and $19 m in 25 if still on roster). Ramseys contract would not impact retaining our own guys or re-signing guys 2 or 3 years down the road. It's called cap management. We have a good cap guy in Disner. This is his job. Did the "Veteran Presence" result in a deep playoff run? The tone setters for this team are, in no particular order, Taylor Decker, Penei Sewell, Jamal Williams, ARSB, Jerry Jacobs and Aidan Hutchinson. The Lions have "their culture" and are building it with their players. Personally, I am tired of watching the Lions throw big money around looking for the "on-field savior" from outside the organization. We improved a lot over the second half of the season but we need one more good draft/off-season before we make a major splash move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 According to multiple reports, the Lions have hired defensive line coach John Scott for a job on Dan Campbell’s staff. The specific role is not known, but the Lions have an opening for a defensive line coach after Todd Wash left the team to take a job with the Panthers. Lions likely filling their DL coach need with John Scott from Penn State. Commanders place franchise tag on Daron Payne I know several people were wanting to target Payne as a free agent. Doesn't look like it'll be an option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: According to multiple reports, the Lions have hired defensive line coach John Scott for a job on Dan Campbell’s staff. The specific role is not known, but the Lions have an opening for a defensive line coach after Todd Wash left the team to take a job with the Panthers. Lions likely filling their DL coach need with John Scott from Penn State. Commanders place franchise tag on Daron Payne I know several people were wanting to target Payne as a free agent. Doesn't look like it'll be an option. They got a lot of cap relief when they released Carson Wentz. However, the Commanders still have Montez Sweat and Chase Young coming up for extensions. Montez Sweat has be a pretty solid player. People talk a lot about Chase Young but even before his injury he wasn't having a great season. It will be interesting to see what they do with their D-Line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said: Did the "Veteran Presence" result in a deep playoff run? The tone setters for this team are, in no particular order, Taylor Decker, Penei Sewell, Jamal Williams, ARSB, Jerry Jacobs and Aidan Hutchinson. The Lions have "their culture" and are building it with their players. Personally, I am tired of watching the Lions throw big money around looking for the "on-field savior" from outside the organization. We improved a lot over the second half of the season but we need one more good draft/off-season before we make a major splash move. I honestly can't remember the last time the Lions threw big money around to find the savior so not sure how you can be sick of it. We signed Flowers to fit Patricia's system which didn't work but that was a huge need and a guy who knew the system. I don't think anyone expected him to be a savior, and I don't think anyone expects Ramsey to be a savior either. The fact of the matter is, our CBs are weak, and have been one of the weakest spots on this team since we moved Slay. Ramsey is a great talent that can come in and fill that spot for a few years. We are moving upwards and are building the team in a great way but that doesn't mean you don't take a chance at an elite talent when available. Those leaders you mentioned have all mentioned recruiting Ramsey to join the Lions, so your leadership thinks it would be a good fit. We can still have good drafts and other signings while taking on Ramsey. Given the turnover in the league and how quickly rosters churn (The Chiefs only had like 5 players who were on their last championship team), now is the perfect time to make a splash like Ramsey and open the window. Then in three years when his contract is up and he is too old, we can resign Penei, ARSB, and be ready to resign Hutch and other picks we want to keep around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I honestly can't remember the last time the Lions threw big money around to find the savior so not sure how you can be sick of it. We signed Flowers to fit Patricia's system which didn't work but that was a huge need and a guy who knew the system. I don't think anyone expected him to be a savior, and I don't think anyone expects Ramsey to be a savior either. The fact of the matter is, our CBs are weak, and have been one of the weakest spots on this team since we moved Slay. Ramsey is a great talent that can come in and fill that spot for a few years. We are moving upwards and are building the team in a great way but that doesn't mean you don't take a chance at an elite talent when available. Those leaders you mentioned have all mentioned recruiting Ramsey to join the Lions, so your leadership thinks it would be a good fit. We can still have good drafts and other signings while taking on Ramsey. Given the turnover in the league and how quickly rosters churn (The Chiefs only had like 5 players who were on their last championship team), now is the perfect time to make a splash like Ramsey and open the window. Then in three years when his contract is up and he is too old, we can resign Penei, ARSB, and be ready to resign Hutch and other picks we want to keep around. I've been trying to go back and see our big money signings and I'm coming up blank. And yes, adding vet presence in KVB/Quinn sent us to the playoffs after going 0-16 and missing the playoffs for over a decade. So yes, it helped a ton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said: According to multiple reports, the Lions have hired defensive line coach John Scott for a job on Dan Campbell’s staff. The specific role is not known, but the Lions have an opening for a defensive line coach after Todd Wash left the team to take a job with the Panthers. Lions likely filling their DL coach need with John Scott from Penn State. Commanders place franchise tag on Daron Payne I know several people were wanting to target Payne as a free agent. Doesn't look like it'll be an option. John Scott coached Javon Kinlaw at SC whom we all liked in the draft a few years back. Was also at Arkansas while Ragnow was there. So going head to head in practice should have some familiarity. I expected Washington to tag Payne. Like was mentioned though, they still have questions about how they are going to keep that DL together moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 41 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I honestly can't remember the last time the Lions threw big money around to find the savior so not sure how you can be sick of it. We signed Flowers to fit Patricia's system which didn't work but that was a huge need and a guy who knew the system. I don't think anyone expected him to be a savior, and I don't think anyone expects Ramsey to be a savior either. The fact of the matter is, our CBs are weak, and have been one of the weakest spots on this team since we moved Slay. Ramsey is a great talent that can come in and fill that spot for a few years. We are moving upwards and are building the team in a great way but that doesn't mean you don't take a chance at an elite talent when available. Those leaders you mentioned have all mentioned recruiting Ramsey to join the Lions, so your leadership thinks it would be a good fit. We can still have good drafts and other signings while taking on Ramsey. Given the turnover in the league and how quickly rosters churn (The Chiefs only had like 5 players who were on their last championship team), now is the perfect time to make a splash like Ramsey and open the window. Then in three years when his contract is up and he is too old, we can resign Penei, ARSB, and be ready to resign Hutch and other picks we want to keep around. The Qintricia Era was full of big money being thrown around poorly. IIRC they made Flowers the highest paid defensive player at the time the contract was signed. There were plenty of posters on this forum who seemed to view Flowers as a savior at the time of the signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 50 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: The Qintricia Era was full of big money being thrown around poorly. IIRC they made Flowers the highest paid defensive player at the time the contract was signed. There were plenty of posters on this forum who seemed to view Flowers as a savior at the time of the signing. Same goes for Kyle Vanden Bosch. Heck even a player like Edwin Muilatalo was over-paid to come to Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: The Qintricia Era was full of big money being thrown around poorly. IIRC they made Flowers the highest paid defensive player at the time the contract was signed. There were plenty of posters on this forum who seemed to view Flowers as a savior at the time of the signing. Sounds like hyperbole to me. Flowers is the only big time free agent we have signed going back to Dre Bly. And at the time when a free agent DE is available, they are going to cost money. I think people expected him to be the best D lineman we had but I don't think anyone expected him to be a savior of the team. We also signed Justin Coleman that year. Did we overpay? Yes but it wasn't crazy money being thrown around. We signed Ricky Wagner in 2017 to play RT and that didn't work out but again, not crazy dollars or franchise savior type comments from that deal. Vaitai was another overpriced signing but not a killer and nobody expected to be a savior. We haven't blown money for big names other than Flowers. And when you spend big to make someone the centerpiece, its very different than spending to plug in holes on a competitive team. The biggest problem with our free agent signings is we signed the wrong guys. Holmes has shown he seems to have a good eye for talent and fitting it into what we have and need (Chark, Elliot, Cominsky, Buggs, Hughes) and if he thinks Ramsey fits both culture and cap wise, I am all for it. Same with any bigger priced free agent as long as it doesn't hurt us to the point we can't resign our own when needed which seems to be at least two years away still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 35 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: Sounds like hyperbole to me. Flowers is the only big time free agent we have signed going back to Dre Bly. And at the time when a free agent DE is available, they are going to cost money. I think people expected him to be the best D lineman we had but I don't think anyone expected him to be a savior of the team. We also signed Justin Coleman that year. Did we overpay? Yes but it wasn't crazy money being thrown around. We signed Ricky Wagner in 2017 to play RT and that didn't work out but again, not crazy dollars or franchise savior type comments from that deal. Vaitai was another overpriced signing but not a killer and nobody expected to be a savior. We haven't blown money for big names other than Flowers. And when you spend big to make someone the centerpiece, its very different than spending to plug in holes on a competitive team. The biggest problem with our free agent signings is we signed the wrong guys. Holmes has shown he seems to have a good eye for talent and fitting it into what we have and need (Chark, Elliot, Cominsky, Buggs, Hughes) and if he thinks Ramsey fits both culture and cap wise, I am all for it. Same with any bigger priced free agent as long as it doesn't hurt us to the point we can't resign our own when needed which seems to be at least two years away still. How is a 90 million dollar contract hyperbole? I'm jealous of your financial perspective lol. In my opinion, Quintricia signed several big money free agents in the two full off seasons they had. We're still recovering from their mistakes. 2019: CB Justin Coleman - Signing 4 year, $36 million contract with Lions EDGE Trey Flowers - Signing 5-year, $90 million deal with Lions ($56 million guaranteed) TE Jesse James - Signing 4-year, $25 million deal with Lions 2020: OT Halapoulivaati Vaitai - Signing 5-year, $45M deal with Lions LB Jamie Collins Sr. - Signing 3-year, $30M deal with Lions CB Desmond Trufant - Signing 2-year, $21M deal with Lions I don't think people were homerish enough to call Big V a savior, but there were certainly fans of the signing. Quote I like it. 26 years old and $10M per. Glad they made a move. Quote While Sliim might not like this, I still factor in Wagner's $5M of dead cap into the mix. We could either look at it as an $11M deal ($10M + $1M of dead cap per year) for the next 5 years or one year at $15M and others at $10M. This is still a good deal even if we factor in Wagner's dead cap. I'm curious to know if MCDC and Holmes see Ramsey as a culture fit. Obviously, if they trade for him they think it's a fit and I'd be a fan of having a CB like him on the Lions depending on the cost to trade and extend him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said: How is a 90 million dollar contract hyperbole? I'm jealous of your financial perspective lol. In my opinion, Quintricia signed several big money free agents in the two full off seasons they had. We're still recovering from their mistakes. 2019: CB Justin Coleman - Signing 4 year, $36 million contract with Lions EDGE Trey Flowers - Signing 5-year, $90 million deal with Lions ($56 million guaranteed) TE Jesse James - Signing 4-year, $25 million deal with Lions 2020: OT Halapoulivaati Vaitai - Signing 5-year, $45M deal with Lions LB Jamie Collins Sr. - Signing 3-year, $30M deal with Lions CB Desmond Trufant - Signing 2-year, $21M deal with Lions I don't think people were homerish enough to call Big V a savior, but there were certainly fans of the signing. I'm curious to know if MCDC and Holmes see Ramsey as a culture fit. Obviously, if they trade for him they think it's a fit and I'd be a fan of having a CB like him on the Lions depending on the cost to trade and extend him. I guess your idea of big name/money and savior and mine are different. Being a fan of a signing and calling someone a savior is a huge difference. Every GM has to sign players to fill holes, there is no getting around it. Flowers is the only big name you listed. The money on the other was bigger than a rookie deal but not out of line with free agent costs. Collins was the 7th highest AAV signed that offseason for a LB. Coleman and Trufant were not in the top 5 of AAV for their positions. Vatai was overpaid, we all knew it, but also knew we needed a RT with Wagner leaving. Of those deals, Vaitai is the only one that has any impact now and that will be minimal if we cut him. Flowers is the only one that had huge negative impacts on any year. Sure previous GMs signed free agents, but none of them hindered us long term or were hard to get out of even if the player is considered a failure. I get not wanting more failures to take up cap space, but I don't think anyone is suggesting we spend on failures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I guess your idea of big name/money and savior and mine are different. Being a fan of a signing and calling someone a savior is a huge difference. Every GM has to sign players to fill holes, there is no getting around it. Flowers is the only big name you listed. The money on the other was bigger than a rookie deal but not out of line with free agent costs. Collins was the 7th highest AAV signed that offseason for a LB. Coleman and Trufant were not in the top 5 of AAV for their positions. Vatai was overpaid, we all knew it, but also knew we needed a RT with Wagner leaving. Of those deals, Vaitai is the only one that has any impact now and that will be minimal if we cut him. Flowers is the only one that had huge negative impacts on any year. Sure previous GMs signed free agents, but none of them hindered us long term or were hard to get out of even if the player is considered a failure. I get not wanting more failures to take up cap space, but I don't think anyone is suggesting we spend on failures. I think we're splitting hairs on the savior issue. Considering the size of the contract, the fact that some people were happy with the Big V signing shows me they expected him to fix (save) the RT position. I didn't read more than the first page of the thread so I wouldn't expect to find someone using the word "savior". I'm not talking about big names, I am discussing big money especially considering the value the player provided, and their expected roles on the team. I think all the names listed fit the criteria. Once again I think we're splitting hairs, but Jamie Collins had a 6.3 million dollar cap hit in 2022. I think that is a significant hit even if you don't feel it's "huge". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 I think we would all agree that no matter the free agent signing during the quintricia era, it was a colossal cluster ****. I'm not exactly sure we should hold what they did against every other GM. With that being said, I'm not super excited about signing aging pro-bowlers to max deals. If we can stay away from that, I'd be fine with signing vets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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