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Random Bears Thoughts - Offseason Thread


Ty21

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4 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

TNK has a pretty damn good arm.  He was chucking those spears all over the damn place with precision accuracy.

50% completion percentage on dragons iirc but the first one was a game ender

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Jaylon Johnson joking jested that the bears should use the cap to pay him first and it’s not a bad idea. Once DL, LB and CB2 plays better than the UDFA’s thrown in the roles, he’ll become more efficient and more expensive 

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1 hour ago, Ty21 said:

Jaylon Johnson joking jested that the bears should use the cap to pay him first and it’s not a bad idea. Once DL, LB and CB2 plays better than the UDFA’s thrown in the roles, he’ll become more efficient and more expensive 

He’s probably not wrong. I’m curious how realistic his price tag will be. @StLunatic88and I debated for a bit on where a contract for JJ should be earlier this offseason. He’s a plus starter for sure, but I think his lack of ball production caps his contract potential at least somewhat. I likened him to a prime Prince Amukamara, who was borderline elite in coverage in his prime but generated very few takeaways. That’s a great player to have, but not an irreplaceable one. With that said, does the turnover production go up for JJ as he’s targeted more when there’s actual competency across the field? Maybe. It’ll be an interesting deal for sure, and one I do hope gets done.

As for that CB2, I’m not opposed at all to that being Gordon if the best CB we can add this offseason is strictly a slot. Simply, we need a talent upgrade wherever we can get it at CB. Gordon can do both, and I like his ball skills outside. He showed good instincts for taking the ball away when he was outside in 2022 as well as good hands, and he got better in coverage overall as the season wore on. With that, I DO want them to leave Gordon at one or the other this year regardless of which that is.  

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I would like to see both Johnson and Mooney extended and Montgomery resigned this offseason.

Johnson is a good CB and good CBs are a premium position that is hard to find.  Even if he isn't great.  

Mooney and Montgomery are glue guys that you want and need on your team. 

I get that price matters for all 3.  Of the 3, I get feeling Johnson will be most hard to deal with and sign.

Claypool I would take a wait and see how he does approach.  

 

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29 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I would like to see both Johnson and Mooney extended and Montgomery resigned this offseason.

Johnson is a good CB and good CBs are a premium position that is hard to find.  Even if he isn't great.  

Mooney and Montgomery are glue guys that you want and need on your team. 

I get that price matters for all 3.  Of the 3, I get feeling Johnson will be most hard to deal with and sign.

Claypool I would take a wait and see how he does approach.  

 

Monty is the most difficult decision of those to me, because he’s absolutely a glue guy and those intangibles matter a lot. At the same time, performance on the field matters more, especially at a high volume position. There is going to be a glut of guys on the FA market who are also glue type guys but are also better RBs than Montgomery, and this season has to be about putting the most talent around JFF to set him up for success.

Dalvin Cook has a $14.1M cap hit and says he won’t take a pay cut to stay, and MIN is $21M over the cap and haven’t extended Jefferson yet. He’s probably hitting the market. He’s also still a stud RB and a 3-time team captain in MIN. Which makes more sense - Cook at like $11M x 2, or Monty at about $6M x 2-3? For me it’s Cook and it’s not particularly close. I’d say the same with Aaron Jones if he were to be released too (and that seems really likely given his cap number, their situation, and Dillon’s presence). I love Monty and I won’t be upset in the slightest if he’s brought back… but I think we should aim higher here. He’s a solid player but he’s never really been a difference maker on Sundays. Especially since it seems we may have a hard time adding a true WR1 this offseason, we need to add top talent wherever we can. 

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Just now, AZBearsFan said:

Monty is the most difficult decision of those to me, because he’s absolutely a glue guy and those intangibles matter a lot. At the same time. performance on the field matters more, especially at a high volume position. There is going to be a glut of guys on the FA market who are also glue type guys but are also better RBs than Montgomery, and this season has to be about putting the most talent around JFF to set him up for success.

Dalvin Cook has a $14.1M cap hit and says he won’t take a pay cut to stay, and MIN is $21M over the cap and haven’t extended Jefferson yet. He’s probably hitting the market. He’s also still a stud RB and a 3-time team captain in MIN. Which makes more sense - Cook at like $11M x 2, or Monty at about $6M x 2-3? For me it’s Cook and it’s not particularly close. I’d say the same with Aaron Jones if he were to be released too (and that seems really likely given his cap number, their situation, and Dillon’s presence). I love Monty and I won’t be upset in the slightest if he’s brought back… but I think we should aim higher here. He’s a solid player but he’s never really been a difference maker on Sundays. Especially since it seems we may have a hard time adding a true WR1 this offseason, we need to add top talent wherever we can. 

I don't believe Poles will pay any RB big money.  Not even Cook, Barkley or Derrick Henry.  

I think he is a believer, as am I, that OL quality effects RB play a great deal.  Even though above are uber talented athletes.  

I don't think Monty will get big money anywhere so he can be brought back reasonably. 

I think if you had a good OL in place you could draft a super talented RB high and it could and likely would pay instant dividends.  Like Dallas did with Elliot for example.   If Giants had a good OL in place Barkley would have paid huge dividends.  Derrick Henry did very well when he had a good OL and it helped Titans win a lot of games.  

Great RB plus good or great OL = good offense very often.  But the OL is the hard part to build and keep.  The RBs are easier to find. 

But that is rookie contract.   Giving them a big 2nd contract is usually a mistake in today's NFL.

 

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13 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

But that is rookie contract.   Giving them a big 2nd contract is usually a mistake in today's NFL.

I don’t disagree with that; however in this scenario we have oodles of cap space and the type of deal I would be willing to do for a vet RB (1-2 year high percentage guarantee) would put that cap space right back in our coffers to be reallocated toward younger talent by the time we need it. To me there’s no real downside of a short term big money deal for a top tier vet RB in our present scenario. We’re never using anywhere near all our cap space this season, and a deal like that wouldn’t impact at all our ability to do whatever is needed elsewhere (especially along the OL). We’re not in an either/or place right now at all.

Also, adding a guy like Cook would not preclude me from also drafting a mid-late round RB who ideally will make a second vet signing of a guy like Cook unneeded. Had Ebner shown anything of consequence as a RB this past year we probably wouldn’t be talking much about keeping Monty outside of a super team friendly deal. Kenny McIntosh makes a ton of sense to me as a rookie to be paired with Herbert - he’s strong where Herbert is lacking very much like Monty is (most notably in the passing game both as a receiver and as a pass protector). But, I have a particular fancy for Tank Bigsby. His value in the passing game is less developed than McIntosh, but I LOVE the way he runs with power and explosiveness, and his stiff arm on film is vicious. I think he’s going to be a really good pro for a long time. I think he can be had in R3 and be a tremendous value there. 

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21 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t disagree with that; however in this scenario we have oodles of cap space and the type of deal I would be willing to do for a vet RB (1-2 year high percentage guarantee) would put that cap space right back in our coffers to be reallocated toward younger talent by the time we need it. To me there’s no real downside of a short term big money deal for a top tier vet RB in our present scenario. We’re never using anywhere near all our cap space this season, and a deal like that wouldn’t impact at all our ability to do whatever is needed elsewhere (especially along the OL). We’re not in an either/or place right now at all.

Also, adding a guy like Cook would not preclude me from also drafting a mid-late round RB who ideally will make a second vet signing of a guy like Cook unneeded. Had Ebner shown anything of consequence as a RB this past year we probably wouldn’t be talking much about keeping Monty outside of a super team friendly deal. Kenny McIntosh makes a ton of sense to me as a rookie to be paired with Herbert - he’s strong where Herbert is lacking very much like Monty is (most notably in the passing game both as a receiver and as a pass protector). But, I have a particular fancy for Tank Bigsby. His value in the passing game is less developed than McIntosh, but I LOVE the way he runs with power and explosiveness, and his stiff arm on film is vicious. I think he’s going to be a really good pro for a long time. I think he can be had in R3 and be a tremendous value there. 

I will be absolutely shocked if we sign Cook.  Cap space being whatever.  Shocked.  He is a good football player.  It would help.   I don't believe for a second it will actually happen.   

Ebner was a bad pick.    He was fast.  That's it.  Traits pick hoping to hit lottery.  The other RB on his team was better IMO and also his college's coach's opinion.  And that guy didn't even get drafted.  I said it at time.   Too many people assume college coaches don't know their players or don't know their business when choosing who to play.  In some cases that may be true, but I think mostly it is not.    (I realize I say that somewhat hypocritically as I often complain about Bears bench players not getting playing time or opportunities over the years - but in my defense college coaches get to see players in a lot more live action in practice than pro coaches do.  That makes a big difference.)  

 The bolded above I agree with 100%.  Actually like 2 or 3 more backs I like in draft besides.   Really good RB draft class.  Deep.  Good year to grab one in middle rounds.

Even with the deep class I want Monty back.  For many of same arguments you made for Cook.  We can afford it at the moment.   And like I said.  You need some people like Monty on your team if you want to be great.

I say keep a pipeline of young RBs and don't resign hardly any of them.  Monty situation is he is reasonable and we have a lot of money and need him.

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47 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

 

If this is true it sucks...there have been a lot of excellent wide receivers, linebackers & pass rushers over the years...there has only ever been one Hester.

Sucks, but this year was always gonna be hard with Freeney, Revis and Thomas all 1st year guys on the ballot. They were the best at their positions for several years and all play premium positions. All 3 are absolute no brainers to me. 

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57 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Sucks, but this year was always gonna be hard with Freeney, Revis and Thomas all 1st year guys on the ballot. They were the best at their positions for several years and all play premium positions. All 3 are absolute no brainers to me. 

It's only 5 guys too right?

Sucks writers are so bad I have to look at multiple sources for simple information. 

So here is list:

 

Jared Allen, DE – 2004-2007 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-2015 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers
Willie Anderson, OT -- 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens
Ronde Barber, DB – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Dwight Freeney, DE -- 2002-2012 Indianapolis Colts, 2013-14 San Diego Chargers, 2015 Arizona Cardinals, 2016 Atlanta Falcons, 2017 Detroit Lions, 2017 Seattle Seahawks
Devin Hester, PR/KR/WR -- 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-2015 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens, 2016 Seattle Seahawks
Torry Holt, WR -- 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars
Andre Johnson, WR -- 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016 Tennessee Titans
Albert Lewis, CB -- 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-1998 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders
Darrelle Revis, CB -- 2007-2012/2015-16 New York Jets, 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2014 New England Patriots, 2017 Kansas City Chiefs
Joe Thomas, LT -- 2007-2017 Cleveland Browns
Zach Thomas, LB -- 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys
DeMarcus Ware, LB -- 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-2016 Denver Broncos
Reggie Wayne, WR -- 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts
Patrick Willis, LB -- 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers
Darren Woodson, S -- 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys

For me my five would be:  

I probably go with 2 of first ballot guys. 

 1) Joe Thomas is probably best OT of all time. 

2)  Revis is on Mt. Rushmore of CBs.     So they both should go in right away. 

3) Ronde Barber is in too for me.  He is a 15 year player and 14 year starter.  One of best CBs in league whole time.  6x first or 2nd team AP.  And DPOY.  

4) Patrick Willis was arguably the very best ILB nearly every single year he played in league even though he had relatively short career (by choice).  An athletic freak.   Not big on drafting ILBs in first round, but I wanted him bad for Bears.  

5) Zach Thomas was first team all pro 5x.  Second team 3 other times.  He was Defensive ROY.  And a Defensive POY.    He was underrated coming in league.  Came in good and stayed really good whole time.   

I probably pick those 5  if it was me.   

I would say Andre Johnson  and Dwight Freeney are next for me. 

Johnson played on expansion Texans and all bad teams.  Many rosters worse than Bears last year.  You can't even name many guys he played with. 

He played with expansion era Carr, Schaub/Rosenthal splitting time and Ryan Mallett/Fitzpatrick/Keenum combo.  

If he plays on even decent teams everything would be different because his talent was unbelievable.   He still produced somehow.   Holt and Wayne are studs, but they played on great teams with great QBs.  Johnson was on another level from them talentwise.  Bigger, faster, stronger.

He was 6'3, 230 and had legit track speed.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

It's only 5 guys too right?

Sucks writers are so bad I have to look at multiple sources for simple information. 

So here is list:

 

Jared Allen, DE – 2004-2007 Kansas City Chiefs, 2008-2013 Minnesota Vikings, 2014-2015 Chicago Bears, 2015 Carolina Panthers
Willie Anderson, OT -- 1996-2007 Cincinnati Bengals, 2008 Baltimore Ravens
Ronde Barber, DB – 1997-2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Dwight Freeney, DE -- 2002-2012 Indianapolis Colts, 2013-14 San Diego Chargers, 2015 Arizona Cardinals, 2016 Atlanta Falcons, 2017 Detroit Lions, 2017 Seattle Seahawks
Devin Hester, PR/KR/WR -- 2006-2013 Chicago Bears, 2014-2015 Atlanta Falcons, 2016 Baltimore Ravens, 2016 Seattle Seahawks
Torry Holt, WR -- 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars
Andre Johnson, WR -- 2003-2014 Houston Texans, 2015 Indianapolis Colts, 2016 Tennessee Titans
Albert Lewis, CB -- 1983-1993 Kansas City Chiefs, 1994-1998 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders
Darrelle Revis, CB -- 2007-2012/2015-16 New York Jets, 2013 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2014 New England Patriots, 2017 Kansas City Chiefs
Joe Thomas, LT -- 2007-2017 Cleveland Browns
Zach Thomas, LB -- 1996-2007 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Dallas Cowboys
DeMarcus Ware, LB -- 2005-2013 Dallas Cowboys, 2014-2016 Denver Broncos
Reggie Wayne, WR -- 2001-2014 Indianapolis Colts
Patrick Willis, LB -- 2007-2014 San Francisco 49ers
Darren Woodson, S -- 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys

For me my five would be:  

I probably go with 2 of first ballot guys. 

 1) Joe Thomas is probably best OT of all time. 

2)  Revis is on Mt. Rushmore of CBs.     So they both should go in right away. 

3) Ronde Barber is in too for me.  He is a 15 year player and 14 year starter.  One of best CBs in league whole time.  6x first or 2nd team AP.  And DPOY.  

4) Patrick Willis was arguably the very best ILB nearly every single year he played in league even though he had relatively short career (by choice).  An athletic freak.   Not big on drafting ILBs in first round, but I wanted him bad for Bears.  

5) Zach Thomas was first team all pro 5x.  Second team 3 other times.  He was Defensive ROY.  And a Defensive POY.    He was underrated coming in league.  Came in good and stayed really good whole time. 

 

 

For me...

1. Joe Thomas

2. DeMarcus Ware

3. Darrelle Revis

4. Andre Johnson

5. Devin Hester

Edited by Madmike90
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