Random Bears Thoughts - Offseason Thread

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/bears-center-cody-whitehair-feels-more-comfortable-season
 

I find it hard to believe QBs like the slower style gun snap like Whitehair says here.

It slows down the play and disrupts timing on mesh.  Nobody wants a slow lob gun snap.

This was major problem I had with Whitehair at center first time around. 

Those fractions of a second matter. 

I was more confused about how he said the slower snap allowed the QB to to find the laces faster. While I can boast all the experience 1.5 years JV and scout team QB (/s) I don't get how getting the ball slower means adjusting to the laces faster. Once it is in your hands you don't look at the ball, it is all feel. Just like getting your fingers on the seams on a basketball when you shoot.

Getting him the ball faster means getting his fingers in the laces faster, right? Unless he thinks Fields is adjusting himself as he is catching to try and land on the laces. That seems like a mental effort that would be kind of pointless.

[AZBearsFan]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I was more confused about how he said the slower snap allowed the QB to to find the laces faster. While I can boast all the experience 1.5 years JV and scout team QB (/s) I don't get how getting the ball slower means adjusting to the laces faster. Once it is in your hands you don't look at the ball, it is all feel. Just like getting your fingers on the seams on a basketball when you shoot.

Getting him the ball faster means getting his fingers in the laces faster, right? Unless he thinks Fields is adjusting himself as he is catching to try and land on the laces. That seems like a mental effort that would be kind of pointless.

I read the quote as though he means that with the “slower” snap he’s more consistently putting the snap on target which will allow Fields to find the laces faster than a “quick” snap that’s less precisely located. 

[StLunatic88]

8 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I read the quote as though he means that with the “slower” snap he’s more consistently putting the snap on target which will allow Fields to find the laces faster than a “quick” snap that’s less precisely located. 

Honestly I think there’s too much being made about the quote, as well as Whitehair’s previous stint at Center

Either he will have a good enough snap for Justin, or he won’t and will have to fix it. And if he can’t fix it, he will be replaced by Patrick and become the Super Utility Lineman (or Cut).

This is all for one season, one more rebuilding season. This isn’t like we just drafted a guy in the Top 50 to be the Center for the next 4-8 years and suddenly we have very major questions like “can he snap the ball well enough”

We obviously don’t want major issues on the team, but I’m starting to sense some of you are expecting to compete this year… Please don’t, we still have a pretty long row to hoe

[dll2000]

5 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I was more confused about how he said the slower snap allowed the QB to to find the laces faster. While I can boast all the experience 1.5 years JV and scout team QB (/s) I don't get how getting the ball slower means adjusting to the laces faster. Once it is in your hands you don't look at the ball, it is all feel. Just like getting your fingers on the seams on a basketball when you shoot.

Getting him the ball faster means getting his fingers in the laces faster, right? Unless he thinks Fields is adjusting himself as he is catching to try and land on the laces. That seems like a mental effort that would be kind of pointless.

Here is what it looks like:

 

 

[dll2000]

Here is what a normal snap looks like from Carolina center in same game at 4:30:

 

 

[dll2000]

You can snap a spiral snap so it rotates laces right to qb hand on catch on most occasions.  

But sometimes it just a quick quarter turn.

On a smoke play (immediate pass to WR)  sometimes they want it out so fast they don't even bother to have laces.

The dead ball snap is a fraction of a second slower as you can see in video. 

But for guys who can't spiral snap, which is a skill, and Cody can't, the dead ball snap is the fix.  It is easier to do.  

It is not the preferred method - by anyone that I am aware of.    It is a fix to a problem.

It is better than snapping to a fumble.   But it is not ideal.

 

[AZBearsFan]

34 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Honestly I think there’s too much being made about the quote, as well as Whitehair’s previous stint at Center

Either he will have a good enough snap for Justin, or he won’t and will have to fix it. And if he can’t fix it, he will be replaced by Patrick and become the Super Utility Lineman (or Cut).

This is all for one season, one more rebuilding season. This isn’t like we just drafted a guy in the Top 50 to be the Center for the next 4-8 years and suddenly we have very major questions like “can he snap the ball well enough”

We obviously don’t want major issues on the team, but I’m starting to sense some of you are expecting to compete this year… Please don’t, we still have a pretty long row to hoe

Not sure if you were speaking to me specifically with this part but my expectations are for varying levels of growth pretty well across the board but ultimately somewhere from 6-10 wins depending on how our toss up games fall, with our own 2024 1st rounder falling somewhere in the 10-20 range.

I do expect to watch a lot of exciting and competitive games though. I don’t think we’ll get completely outclassed this year much if at all. I expect the offense to be pretty solid this year with continuity at OC, reasonable levels of expected growth from JFF, what should be an upgraded OL and an unquestionably better WR group. I think though that unless someone emerges as an impact player along the DL we’ll be unable to stop good offenses in crunch time to close out some games. I definitely foresee myself betting a lot of Bears overs this fall. 

As to Whitehair though, I wholeheartedly agree that FAR too much is made of his snapping of the football. 

[StLunatic88]

22 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Not sure if you were speaking to me specifically with this part but my expectations are for varying levels of growth pretty well across the board but ultimately somewhere from 6-10 wins depending on how our toss up games fall, with our own 2024 1st rounder falling somewhere in the 10-20 range.

Wasnt really referring to you, it was just stream of thought from the over-fixation on the snaps for 2023.

I would very much agree with your assessment, the team should be fun to watch, the Offense should probably be better than anything we've seen recently, but the Defense is soooo behind what Flus' defenses usually are (DE spot is obvious flaw, DL is pretty young and learning, the LB spot has talent, but Im not sure exactly what to think there, and while the Starters in the Secondary are very appealing they are young, and we are pretty shallow there)  although Im more pessimistic on the record, feels like EVERYTHING would have to go right to win 10 games. Id put us more in the 5-8 win area

Feels like we may lose alot of games on the final drive, or not leave enough time for JF to make a comeback once he gets the ball. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by StLunatic88

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I read the quote as though he means that with the “slower” snap he’s more consistently putting the snap on target which will allow Fields to find the laces faster than a “quick” snap that’s less precisely located. 

Ah, gotcha. If that is what it is meant then by all means I'm all for it. The errant snaps obviously would be the most detrimental even when Fields catches it. Throws timing off, can change his eye level drastically, etc. I was just confused on how the slower speed meant Fields would be faster finding of the laces. Seems I took the line too literally.

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Wasnt really referring to you, it was just stream of thought from the over-fixation on the snaps for 2023.

I would very much agree with your assessment, the team should be fun to watch, the Offense should probably be better than anything we've seen recently, but the Defense is soooo behind what Flus' defenses usually are (DE spot is obvious flaw, DL is pretty young and learning, the LB spot has talent, but Im not sure exactly what to think there, and while the Starters in the Secondary are very appealing they are young, and we are pretty shallow there)  although Im more pessimistic on the record, feels like EVERYTHING would have to go right to win 10 games. Id put us more in the 5-8 win area

Feels like we may lose alot of games on the final drive, or not leave enough time for JF to make a comeback once he gets the ball. 

It’s not an over fixation.  Just technical talk when there is little to talk about.  

Snaps are good enough, just not perfect.

 Whitehair will be an improvement at center and OL will be much better overall than last year.  
 

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

It’s not an over fixation.  Just technical talk when there is little to talk about.  

It’s been harped on a good amount by many in this forum since I brought it up at the end of the season. Not just in this down time.

Its fine, it’s clearly something that stuck with y’all before I was deep enough in the Bears to have it be a problem for me. But him just being a stopgap (with a decent enough backup) is what makes it really a non issue to me 

[Ty21]

 

let’s go!

[dll2000]

12 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

It’s been harped on a good amount by many in this forum since I brought it up at the end of the season. Not just in this down time.

Its fine, it’s clearly something that stuck with y’all before I was deep enough in the Bears to have it be a problem for me. But him just being a stopgap (with a decent enough backup) is what makes it really a non issue to me 

Because before he changed to dead ball he was causing turnovers with bad snaps.

Bears fans do not forget mistakes when we are losing.  

Mistakes are forgiven when we are winning.  

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:52 AM, dll2000 said:

Because before he changed to dead ball he was causing turnovers with bad snaps.

Bears fans do not forget mistakes when we are losing.  

Mistakes are forgiven when we are winning.  
 

It also wasn’t a long term thing. He snapped for a long time without issues and then it became one for a part of one season, and he fixed it. Every C has an occasional bad snap but if Whitehair has one this year Bears fans are gonna be like “SEE HE CAN’T SNAP I TOLD YOU!” Related - Bears fans tend to expect far closer to perfection than they should on a lot of things.

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said:

It also wasn’t a long term thing. He snapped for a long time without issues and then it became one for a part of one season, and he fixed it. Every C has an occasional bad snap but if Whitehair has one this year Bears fans are gonna be like “SEE HE CAN’T SNAP I TOLD YOU!” Related - Bears fans tend to expect far closer to perfection than they should on a lot of things.

Case in point:  Many Bears fans have written off Velus Jones already.

Even if he suddenly starts balling, any drop or fumble, and every WR has drops and fumbles, will be an I told you so moment.

I didn't think Braxton Jones would be a good OT based on couple of college games I watched.   I thought his pass blocking was bad (and to be fair it has been).

But I am willing to believe he can be good and ready to call him a good player despite a previous position. 

He doesn't need to never give up a sack from here on out or never get driven back on a bull rush for me to believe that.

I don't think Whitehair is very good anymore.  Or he hasn't been recently.   I am ready for him to be good though.  I think having two large and powerful guards on either side of him will help that a lot.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by dll2000
typo