GDT: Broncos @ Raiders

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Bolles was a great pick, man. Now I know you're specifically considering a vacuum where we signed Whitworth, but we have to look at each move individually. Bolles has been above average as a rookie Left Tackle, probably our 2nd best Offensive Lineman. I'm confident we've found our starter for the next decade, and franchise Left Tackles can be as hard to find as QBs.

I think Bolles has been just about average, which is great for a R1 pick. But then again he is 25 so you have to assume he is more NFL ready. I don't dislike Bolles, and his selection has grown on me, but I think he is at best a middle-of-the-pack LT whereas I see Reuben Foster as a guy that will become a top 5-8 ILB.

Read this regarding Foster. https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/15/16654938/reuben-foster-stats-injury-49ers-rookie-rankings-rating-grade-pro-football-focus

He will be an absolute elite player in this league.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

 

Bolles was a great pick, man. Now I know you're specifically considering a vacuum where we signed Whitworth, but we have to look at each move individually. Bolles has been above average as a rookie Left Tackle, probably our 2nd best Offensive Lineman. I'm confident we've found our starter for the next decade, and franchise Left Tackles can be as hard to find as QBs.

 

14 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I think Bolles has been just about average, which is great for a R1 pick. But then again he is 25 so you have to assume he is more NFL ready. I don't dislike Bolles, and his selection has grown on me, but I think he is at best a middle-of-the-pack LT whereas I see Reuben Foster as a guy that will become a top 5-8 ILB.

Read this regarding Foster. https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/15/16654938/reuben-foster-stats-injury-49ers-rookie-rankings-rating-grade-pro-football-focus

He will be an absolute elite player in this league.

FWIW, the other part of the argument is that Bolles may very well end up as the 2nd best T taken - Ryan Ramczyk has been hands-down the best T - and while he's playing RT right now, he's more than held his own in the 5 games he had to play LT when Terron Armstead was out.   So the argument can't be made on Ramczyk being only a RT so far.    

As for Foster, the only reason he's not already recognized a top 5 ILB - is the 4 weeks he missed with a HAS.   His play per-game already puts him there, at a PFF rating of 87.2 - yes, already the 5th LB.  Again, the only reason he's not recognized there yet is he's 4 games behind volume wise.  But he's already establishing himself as a top 5 LB now - and his ceiling is top-of-the-line, probably only behind Luke Kuechly (No one gets that ceiling until they prove it).   As discussed in the draft thread, to be worth it, an ILB has to be top-of-the-line, truly elite to be worth 1.20 - Foster is well on his way to establishing this.    Bolles is proving himself to be a capable, but flawed LT so far - nowhere close to top 10 type talent, and worse yet, well behind the other guy we could have traded back for (remember, Elway already confirmed he had an offer to move back to 1.28 but declined, so you can definitely say Ramczyk was available to us & get more talent).   If Ramczyk ends up the top 10 LT, or if Foster is a top-of-the-line, top ILB, and Bolles is just an average LT...well, missed choice for who Elway had on the board, plain and simple.   

Bolles has been everything you want in a run blocker - but as a pass blocking T, he's not even close to a franchise LT (PFF ratings aren't everything, but his 82.2 vs. 53.3 run/pass is a direct testament to this, whereas Ramczyk's 84.1/78.1 really speak to his balance - and why he's the #8 T overall, versus Bolles as  the #38 T overall).   That's going to determine whether or not he's going to be worth taking over Foster or even Ramczyk.   Right now, he's well behind both.    Still, it's only year 1 - but it's not even close to a comp between Bolles & Ramczyk, let alone Bolles & Foster.  And that's exactly what the CW said too, at the time.  We'll see how it plays out in the end, still a lot of time to figure out where this ends up.

[iLikeDefense]

Not to take anything away from Ramczyk but he's got a HOF behind center that has a quick release and can actually orchestrate an offense. We had 3 QBs that consistently take bad sacks and that provide little to nothing in scaring a defense. I think Bolles will look better next year if we can provide a better G next to him and have an actual starting NFL QB. I agree that Foster and Ramczyk are better now but I think we are not giving enough credit to a guy that has a lot going against him.

[Broncofan]

36 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

Not to take anything away from Ramczyk but he's got a HOF behind center that has a quick release and can actually orchestrate an offense. We had 3 QBs that consistently take bad sacks and that provide little to nothing in scaring a defense. I think Bolles will look better next year if we can provide a better G next to him and have an actual starting NFL QB. I agree that Foster and Ramczyk are better now but I think we are not giving enough credit to a guy that has a lot going against him.

Entirely fair. Let’s face it it’s year 1.  So too early to call for sure.     Bolles being 26 vs Ramczyk being 23 next year also factors in too.   Plus fact that Foster is likely only to get surrounded by better talent what’s even more impressive is that he’s literally doing so well all on his own.     

In the grand scheme of things Bolles likely won’t be our biggest miss in 2017 draft.  But still at year 1 he’s behind both Foster and Ramczyk.  But it’s a marathon not a sprint.  We’ll see.  

[Broncofan]

So Peko and Wolfe DNP.  Doesn’t sound like Wolfe is coming back soon either.  

 

With us back at practice it’s time for a GDT for week 13 @ MIA to face Gase / Cutler - who is taking the next one? 

@Joe_is_the_best @broncosfan07 @champ11 @iLikeDefense @AKRNA @germ-x @paul-mac and I are out - who’s next?

[iLikeDefense]

We should just shut down Wolfe. I am concerned about his durability, he's been injured all year long for the past two seasons.

[champ11]

9 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

We should just shut down Wolfe. I am concerned about his durability, he's been injured all year long for the past two seasons.

Wolfe on that Romanowski diet in the offseason, he'll be ready to rock next TC lol 

[Broncofan]

21 minutes ago, iLikeDefense said:

We should just shut down Wolfe. I am concerned about his durability, he's been injured all year long for the past two seasons.

 

11 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Wolfe on that Romanowski diet in the offseason, he'll be ready to rock next TC lol 

The cascade effect of getting hurt in TC or really early often leads to a lost season.  I pray that’s the case with Brandon Marshall after getting hurt in BUF he’s a shell of his 2015 self.   The thing that’s scary with Wolfe is that the neck can’t be due to a cascade effect - and careers can end with them.  We’d be idiots to rush him back in a lost season if there’s even a small risk of re-injury or worsening it.  He’s too valuable to us long term.  Helps us get a better pick if he sits anyways and we will need the 2015-16 version of Wolfe next year.  

[BroncoSojia]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

So Peko and Wolfe DNP.  Doesn’t sound like Wolfe is coming back soon either.  

 

With us back at practice it’s time for a GDT for week 13 @ MIA to face Gase / Cutler - who is taking the next one? 

@Joe_is_the_best @broncosfan07 @champ11 @iLikeDefense @AKRNA @germ-x @paul-mac and I are out - who’s next?

......me?

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Entirely fair. Let’s face it it’s year 1.  So too early to call for sure.     Bolles being 26 vs Ramczyk being 23 next year also factors in too.   Plus fact that Foster is likely only to get surrounded by better talent what’s even more impressive is that he’s literally doing so well all on his own.     

In the grand scheme of things Bolles likely won’t be our biggest miss in 2017 draft.  But still at year 1 he’s behind both Foster and Ramczyk.  But it’s a marathon not a sprint.  We’ll see.  

We knew going into the draft that Ramcyzk was the most NFL ready OT in the draft. I don't think that was ever a question. Had we taken him I would've been pleased. I wasn't disappointed at all when we took Bolles, knowing it would take him into his second year before he really started making an impact. His athleticism is crazy for a guy his size.

We need to keep in mind he's only got 1 year of college experience and little weight room work. Unlike many here I think he will be an excellent LT. I'd expect him to surpass Ramcyzk in a year or so and be in the upper echelon in his 3rd year. The improvement he's shown since day one would seem to justify that.

Pretty much that's exactly what I said after the draft and nothing to this point has changed my mind. I think he was a great pick at that spot.

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

We knew going into the draft that Ramcyzk was the most NFL ready OT in the draft. I don't think that was ever a question. Had we taken him I would've been pleased. I wasn't disappointed at all when we took Bolles, knowing it would take him into his second year before he really started making an impact. His athleticism is crazy for a guy his size.

We need to keep in mind he's only got 1 year of college experience and little weight room work. Unlike many here I think he will be an excellent LT. I'd expect him to surpass Ramcyzk in a year or so and be in the upper echelon in his 3rd year. The improvement he's shown since day one would seem to justify that.

Pretty much that's exactly what I said after the draft and nothing to this point has changed my mind. I think he was a great pick at that spot.

To be fair you have been consistent in this take about year 1 going to go to Ramczyk - and it is only year 1, so there is time, even if Foster/Ramczyk are well ahead for now.   Either way, it's not like it's been a total whiff even if Bolles isn't as good as Foster or Ramczyk.  It just may still end up being a clear missed opp.  But again, way too soon to say - we'll know in another year or 2, at least we don't have to call him a complete bust like some of the other picks are at real risk for, realizing we need at least 1 more year to get a firm idea even for those others (although the lack of any flash at all from guys like McKenzie in ST, and Langley being this raw, and C-Henderson getting a redshirt when he didn't need to be out from an injury perspective, are HUGE red flags).

 

 

[AKRNA]

22 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

To be fair you have been consistent in this take about year 1 going to go to Ramczyk - and it is only year 1, so there is time, even if Foster/Ramczyk are well ahead for now.   Either way, it's not like it's been a total whiff even if Bolles isn't as good as Foster or Ramczyk.  It just may still end up being a clear missed opp.  But again, way too soon to say - we'll know in another year or 2, at least we don't have to call him a complete bust like some of the other picks are at real risk for, realizing we need at least 1 more year to get a firm idea even for those others (although the lack of any flash at all from guys like McKenzie in ST, and Langley being this raw, and C-Henderson getting a redshirt when he didn't need to be out from an injury perspective, are HUGE red flags).

 

 

He won't be a bust. He's about middle of the pack, a bit higher, right now. Better technique (better coaching?) and a year in a weight room should work wonders. We're seeing his floor right now. Ramcyzk is already close to a finished product. Personally I like 'em both and think they're going to start looking like steals. I'm expecting lots of over drafted O Linemen this year.

 

Wish I had the same feeling about the rest (any?) of our 2017 class.

[BroncosFan2010]

I don't see how Ramcyzk as a younger prospect with only a single year of DI football is somehow a more finished prospect that Bolles. I think Bolles is a good, passable LT but he isn't ever going to impact the game in the way Reuben Foster will.

Looking at filling that RT spot is a bit of a terror. The OT FA class is just putrid, guys like James Hurst are looking like top 5 available OT's. And the draft is quite mediocre IMO. Mike McGlinchey is about the same talent level as Ramcyzk and he is getting top 10 hype. I don't think Orlando is as talented as Cam Robinson even, and is getting top 10 hype while Cam fell to R2 (Although I still believe Cam was a 20-25 pick type talent). Its brutal.

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't see how Ramcyzk as a younger prospect with only a single year of DI football is somehow a more finished prospect that Bolles. I think Bolles is a good, passable LT but he isn't ever going to impact the game in the way Reuben Foster will.

Looking at filling that RT spot is a bit of a terror. The OT FA class is just putrid, guys like James Hurst are looking like top 5 available OT's. And the draft is quite mediocre IMO. Mike McGlinchey is about the same talent level as Ramcyzk and he is getting top 10 hype. I don't think Orlando is as talented as Cam Robinson even, and is getting top 10 hype while Cam fell to R2 (Although I still believe Cam was a 20-25 pick type talent). Its brutal.

I was referring to technique  mostly. He's far, far ahead of Bolles.

As poor as NFL OL play has been across the board I think it'll be a long time before you see the first Lineman taken at pick 20. I saw a mock the other day that had 7 OL in the first rd. I think this year we'll see 3 in the top 10 with only 1 not a reach.