AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said: You’d certainly give a 20 year old rookie QB with only one year of being a starter a little bit more slack than most, I don't think there's ever been a 20 year rookie QB in the modern NFL. Who are you referring to? Weird to bring up an age that no QB has entered the league at. Quote but other than that, no one really cares. A rookie is a rookie. You have a guy for 4-5 years on a rookie deal, you’ve got to develop him and help him out to get acclimated to a new game. Who cares if he’s 24 or 22. Obviously teams care. The older a player, the less upside and growth he has. Chris Weinke would have been drafted much higher if he was 22 after winning the Heisman. Quote Better OL play? He’s gotten league average OL play and it s by far the best of his career. Chase missed 5 games and was capped big time this year by the way defenses were playing them. Higgins and Boyd help, sure. If you think they’re the reason for Burrow’s development, then you just aren’t watching. His weapons are top-3, easily. His O-line had very good players this year who just had a slow start. The backups just steamrolled the Bills for 170 yards on the ground. If you don't think these things impact QB production, there's not much further to discuss. Quote If Higgins and Chase are the excuse for Burrow, does Allen also get dinged for having Diggs and Davis? Are you seriously suggesting that Davis is as good as Higgins? He's not even as good as Boyd. Quote Allen’s development must also be based on Diggs coming to town and the development of the other receivers in the offense. Surely. ??? I don't understand the argument. Obviously Allen's production is enhanced by getting better receivers. My entire argument is based on this point. But Allen's accuracy clearly improved from ages 22 to 24 as well, regardless of his surrounding cast. Which further bolsters my argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: According to the poll. Mahomes is in a league of his own as the best QB in the league. And then Burrow is on an island at the #2 spot. Although I do still think most people include Allen in the same tier as Burrow even if Burrow leaped him. I think you are demonstrating recency bias. If Burrow starts producing like a top 2 QB, then I will consider him there. For now, he has elite, top-3 weapons, and produces like a top 5-10ish QB. If Burrow is so clearly no. 2 in the QB hierarchy, why is his production similar to Gino Smith and Goff? I'm very curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 55 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: I think you are demonstrating recency bias. If Burrow starts producing like a top 2 QB, then I will consider him there. For now, he has elite, top-3 weapons, and produces like a top 5-10ish QB. If Burrow is so clearly no. 2 in the QB hierarchy, why is his production similar to Gino Smith and Goff? I'm very curious. I don't think Burrow has done anything to cement himself as the #2 guy but this is doesn't track. Who do you think is the #2 QB? Did they produce like the #2 QB? I'm guessing not but then all of a sudden excuses will roll in that wouldn't be acceptable on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, Bullet Club said: I don't think Burrow has done anything to cement himself as the #2 guy but this is doesn't track. Who do you think is the #2 QB? Did they produce like the #2 QB? I'm guessing not but then all of a sudden excuses will roll in that wouldn't be acceptable on the other side. I'd say a healthy Allen based on the fact that his production slipped after he got injured, and he's had a dominant season (2020) where he was top-4 and two of the top-4 from that year have fallen off since (Rodgers, Brady). I'd like to see Burrow have at least one dominant season before elevating him. Burrow's DVOA has been -7.3%, 5.4%, and 10.9%. Given his awesome weapons, I'd think a top-2 QB could produce way higher than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: I'd say a healthy Allen based on the fact that his production slipped after he got injured, and he's had a dominant season (2020) where he was top-4 and two of the top-4 from that year have fallen off since (Rodgers, Brady). I'd like to see Burrow have at least one dominant season before elevating him. Burrow's DVOA has been -7.3%, 5.4%, and 10.9%. Given his awesome weapons, I'd think a top-2 QB could produce way higher than that. I don't need stats to show me what most of those QBs couldn't do. Joe Burrow gets the job done which is something Allen has failed at time and time again. I remember a time when Peyton Manning had waaay better stats than Brady, but Brady continued to prove that he was could get the job done time in and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Herbert had a great rookie year. Dak had a great rookie year. Brock Purdy is lighting it up. Now that passing is easier, it's not that uncommon for rookie QBs to excel. You might want to reevaluate your thoughts on this. You named 3 QBs and what do you think those % are? Also Hebert Dak and Brock are all playing in a pass happy league now. So their stats are going to be inflated somewhat compared to someone in the 1990s. You named 3 QBs out of the dozens and dozens of QBs who took at least 1 season to start performing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: Dude, don’t even bother. Yep… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 8 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: Given his awesome weapons, I'd think a top-2 QB could produce way higher than that. I really think you need to reevaluate how you assess quarterback play. This "Burrow is carried by his receivers" argument is so outdated and lazy. What are we even doing here? "Joe Burrow has a passer rating of 99.9 with 1,063 yards, 8 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 4 games without Ja'Marr Chase in his career (2022)." "Joe Burrow has a passer rating of 135.0 with 520 yards, 5 touchdowns and 1 interception in 2 games without Tee Higgins in his career (2022)." And two of those INTs with Chase absent can be seen in the following timestamps. Do they look like Joe's fault to you? https://youtu.be/yISH8FkLbFs?t=342 https://youtu.be/yISH8FkLbFs?t=500 https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/joe-burrow-stats-without-tee-higgins https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/joe-burrow-stats-without-jammar-chase 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 5 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: I don't need stats to show me what most of those QBs couldn't do. Joe Burrow gets the job done which is something Allen has failed at time and time again. I remember a time when Peyton Manning had waaay better stats than Brady, but Brady continued to prove that he was could get the job done time in and time again. OK you are one of those people who conflates team success with individual ability. No need to discuss anything further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said: I really think you need to reevaluate how you assess quarterback play. This "Burrow is carried by his receivers" argument is so outdated and lazy. What are we even doing here? "Joe Burrow has a passer rating of 99.9 with 1,063 yards, 8 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 4 games without Ja'Marr Chase in his career (2022)." Uh Joe Burrow played 10 games without Chase in 2020. You have chosen 4 games in 2022. You don't even know the history of your own team and when your best players were drafted? Quote "Joe Burrow has a passer rating of 135.0 with 520 yards, 5 touchdowns and 1 interception in 2 games without Tee Higgins in his career (2022)." Burrow played 2 games without Higgins this year: vs BAL: 82.7 passer rating vs CLE: 85.3 passer rating Explain to me how you are getting a passer rating 135? Are you just straight up lying and assuming it'll get through? What's going on here, buddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Uh Joe Burrow played 10 games without Chase in 2020. You have chosen 4 games in 2022. You don't even know the history of your own team and when your best players were drafted? Burrow played 2 games without Higgins this year: vs BAL: 82.7 passer rating vs CLE: 85.3 passer rating Explain to me how you are getting a passer rating 135? Are you just straight up lying and assuming it'll get through? What's going on here, buddy? Did you even both to click the links? I'm kicking myself for even engaging with you. I'm not going to take assessments off someone who thinks "Burrow doesn't read the defense and just throws it up to his receivers". You're out of your element. Enjoy watching Burrow for the next decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Did you even both to click the links? Yeah the stats are wrong. How is Burrow's passer rating without Higgins 135 when his 2 games this year had passer ratings in the 80s? If you are caught red handed fabricating stats to support the argument, the least you could do is admit you messed up. Either you don't follow your team close enough to know when the stats are obviously wrong, or you are a straight up liar. It's a bad look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 14 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: You’d certainly give a 20 year old rookie QB with only one year of being a starter a little bit more slack than most, but other than that, no one really cares. A rookie is a rookie. You have a guy for 4-5 years on a rookie deal, you’ve got to develop him and help him out to get acclimated to a new game. Who cares if he’s 24 or 22. 11 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: I don't think there's ever been a 20 year rookie QB in the modern NFL. Who are you referring to? Weird to bring up an age that no QB has entered the league at. Not trying to derail the thread, but Tommy Maddox was drafted at the age of 20 and turned 21 at the start of the 1992 season. Aside from that, this is a fun argument. Please continue.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Steins Gate said: 12 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: I don't think there's ever been a 20 year rookie QB in the modern NFL. Who are you referring to? Weird to bring up an age that no QB has entered the league at. Not trying to derail the thread, but Tommy Maddox was drafted at the age of 20 and turned 21 at the start of the 1992 season. Darnold was 20 when drafted and just turned 21 when he started his first NFL Game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: If you are caught red handed fabricating stats to support the argument, the least you could do is admit you messed up. I don't own statmuse, dude. 29 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Either you don't follow your team close enough to know when the stats are obviously wrong, or you are a straight up liar. It's a bad look. 😂 Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.