Mox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 7 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: You named 3 QBs and what do you think those % are? Also Hebert Dak and Brock are all playing in a pass happy league now. So their stats are going to be inflated somewhat compared to someone in the 1990s. You named 3 QBs out of the dozens and dozens of QBs who took at least 1 season to start performing well. Well, that and none of them went to the worst team in the league. Dak went to a good team that played bad the year before because Romo got injured. They also added Zeke. Justin Herbert went to a team with two 1,000 yard WR's, a talented TE, and Ekeler. Brock landed on one of the best teams in the league. Burrow came into a 2-win team with washed AJ Green, Mixon injured and a horrendous OL (though he did have Boyd and rookie Higgins). He was actually pretty solid despite this. He was on pace for 21 TDs 8 Ints and 4300 yards before he was injured. They averaged 5 ppg and 80 ypg more with him then without him. Anyone painting his rookie season as anything but a success that ended due to unfortunate circumstances isn't being honest with themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Steins Gate said: Not trying to derail the thread, but Tommy Maddox was drafted at the age of 20 and turned 21 at the start of the 1992 season. 2 hours ago, MWil23 said: Darnold was 20 when drafted and just turned 21 when he started his first NFL Game. Yes as far as I can tell there haven't been any 20 year old starting QBs in the NFL in the modern era, only 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Bullet Club said: Well, that and none of them went to the worst team in the league. Dak went to a good team that played bad the year before because Romo got injured. They also added Zeke. Justin Herbert went to a team with two 1,000 yard WR's, a talented TE, and Ekeler. Brock landed on one of the best teams in the league. Burrow came into a 2-win team with washed AJ Green, Mixon injured and a horrendous OL (though he did have Boyd and rookie Higgins). He was actually pretty solid despite this. He was on pace for 21 TDs 8 Ints and 4300 yards before he was injured. They averaged 5 ppg and 80 ypg more with him then without him. Anyone painting his rookie season as anything but a success that ended due to unfortunate circumstances isn't being honest with themselves. Ya, that's what I'm saying. He was a pretty good 24 rookie QB. But you'd expect him to be pretty polished coming into the league at such an old age. It's not that rare anymore for rookies to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: I don't own statmuse, dude. No, I guess you just don't follow your team closely enough and/or aren't smart enough to recognize when statmuse is putting out obviously false data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Ya, that's what I'm saying. He was a pretty good 24 rookie QB. But you'd expect him to be pretty polished coming into the league at such an old age. It's not that rare anymore for rookies to be good. Are you sure about that? We have had six first round QB's taken the last two seasons and only one played 'good' as a rookie. Hell, four of them threw more picks than TDs. That's despite half of the six ending up on pretty good teams. Edited January 24, 2023 by Bullet Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: No, I guess you just don't follow your team closely enough and/or aren't smart enough to recognize when statmuse is putting out obviously false data. Edited January 24, 2023 by SmittyBacall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) On 1/23/2023 at 10:19 PM, diamondbull424 said: Recency bias. Allen has been playing injured and just lost to Burrow’s team and was outplayed. Whereas if this was the Allen from last year (or even at the start of this season before the shoulder injury) against KC vs this seasons Burrow, I think most people would take Allen. Pretty much. It's also hard to discount the wealth of weapons Burrow has compared to Allen. Cincy has done a great job surrounding him with talent. If you put Burrow on the Bills- I don't think his stats would be as good as Allen's seeing as Allen put up similar stats with a worse supporting cast and dealing with an injury to his throwing arm that he himself said will need to heal this offseason. Edited January 25, 2023 by WizeGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) On 1/24/2023 at 3:46 AM, mdonnelly21 said: I don't need stats to show me what most of those QBs couldn't do. Joe Burrow gets the job done which is something Allen has failed at time and time again. I remember a time when Peyton Manning had waaay better stats than Brady, but Brady continued to prove that he was could get the job done time in and time again. Burrow has yet to come close to what Allen was doing in the playoffs last year. The only other current QB to have that type of run is Mahomes in 2019. Unfortunately, Allen's coaching staff let him down on what would've likely been an insane playoff run. Allen needs to heal up this offseason. It's pretty clear the injury was impacting him even though he was still playing pretty damn well. The hot takes will flow until then, though I'm fine with people debating Burrow and Allen. Both are damn fine talents. Edited January 25, 2023 by WizeGuy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 4 hours ago, WizeGuy said: Burrow has yet to come close to what Allen was doing in the playoffs last year. The only other current QB to have that type of run is Mahomes in 2019. Unfortunately, Allen's coaching staff let him down on what would've likely been an insane playoff run. Allen needs to heal up this offseason. It's pretty clear the injury was impacting him even though he was still playing pretty damn well. The hot takes will flow until then, though I'm fine with people debating Burrow and Allen. Both are damn fine talents. Like Stephen A said... "I didn't hear anything about his injury when they were 13-3 this season. But now that he loses to Burrow all the sudden he's injured." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 We thought it was Mahomes Allen but it’s Mahomes Burrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 11:22 AM, AngusMcFife said: The one year he didn't have Chase he was mediocre. Are we going to act like Josh Allen wasn't absolute dog water before he got Diggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 What great QB in NFL history has sustained success or elite production without great weapons around him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: Like Stephen A said... "I didn't hear anything about his injury when they were 13-3 this season. But now that he loses to Burrow all the sudden he's injured." *jots down mdonnelly21's name on my list of posters I'm going to **** on when Allen comes back a demon in 2023* =P Edited January 26, 2023 by WizeGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 hours ago, NYRaider said: What great QB in NFL history has sustained success or elite production without great weapons around him? Burrow has never demonstrated elite production despite having elite weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 hours ago, NYRaider said: What great QB in NFL history has sustained success or elite production without great weapons around him? Minus a few outliers like Clayton and Duper, but I'd argue neither of them was especially "great" but rather a byproduct of just how special Marino was. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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