AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Who to believe, a guy who has been proven wrong time after time, or another guy who has been proven wrong time after time? A real mess of a choice. I choose to believe nobody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: This is what we should expect at this time. This is exactly the time for this posturing by both sides. The serious negotiations will happen between when Lamar gets hit with a tag (March 7th) and the start of the new year (March 15th). They probably aren't even talking to each other yet. Like I literally don't think there has been a new offer shared by either side this offseason. The first move is on the Ravens to decide which tag. The real news will happen in 2 weeks and this will all be decided within 3 weeks. I mean it has to be exclusive tag right? If it’s not and it’s the non exclusive i’m 99% sure he’ll resign eventually because that means the FO is confident he isn’t getting the offer he expects from another team and I trust our FO more than any in the league when it comes to "playing the game" against other teams and knowing the landscape of the league (at least from a contract perspective...building an offense maybe not so much). Edited February 24, 2023 by Ray Reed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Who to believe, a guy who has been proven wrong time after time, or another guy who has been proven wrong time after time? A real mess of a choice. I choose to believe nobody. In this instance i'm definitely choosing to believe Hensley (ravens beat writer), Fowler (espn NFL insider), Darlington (espn NFL insider), and EDC himself ("Lamar knows he can come talk to me whenever he wants" from last season's presser, and "it takes two to tango" from this season's presser) over Stephen A. Smith. I don't blame anyone for choosing to believe neither side though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 hour ago, wackywabbit said: This is what we should expect at this time. This is exactly the time for this posturing by both sides. The serious negotiations will happen between when Lamar gets hit with a tag (March 7th) and the start of the new year (March 15th). They probably aren't even talking to each other yet. Like I literally don't think there has been a new offer shared by either side this offseason. The first move is on the Ravens to decide which tag. The real news will happen in 2 weeks and this will all be decided within 3 weeks. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you re: this being a normal posturing phase, but I think the dynamic here is different/has been different based on Lamar representing himself, and there seems to be a more emotional element to a lot of this that, IMO at least, makes these leaks a bit more discouraging in terms of what it says about whether the two sides can reconcile. In general I'd say you've been more optimistic about the prospects of Lamar re-signing and that's probably where the difference in opinion on this particular development comes from as well - I'll certainly give you credit if you're right about it, and would love for you to be the one reading this correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: In this instance i'm definitely choosing to believe Hensley (ravens beat writer), Fowler (espn NFL insider), Darlington (espn NFL insider), and EDC himself ("Lamar knows he can come talk to me whenever he wants" from last season's presser, and "it takes two to tango" from this season's presser) over Stephen A. Smith. I don't blame anyone for choosing to believe neither side though. I was more thinking SAS vs. the ravens4dummies guy but yeah I agree with you here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you re: this being a normal posturing phase, but I think the dynamic here is different/has been different based on Lamar representing himself, and there seems to be a more emotional element to a lot of this that, IMO at least, makes these leaks a bit more discouraging in terms of what it says about whether the two sides can reconcile. The leaks coming out are about how the Ravens have only offered XXXM guaranteed and Lamar is demanding YYYM guaranteed. This is all way too mild. Like I said, this is the time for hyperbole and we're just getting bickering. Like you would from a couple that you aren't worried about in the slightest. All of these "leaks" true or not are really super milk toast. The guys that he is probably close with on the team are mocking the so-called drama. The most important figures with the Ravens have publicly said they want and/or are sure he will be back. Lamar still has himself in a Ravens uniform as his social media profiles and is still retweeting and liking stuff with associations to the Ravens. He's clearly not in a mode of hatred to the team. Doesn't seem as emotional as even the average contract negotiation. We haven't even gotten close to the formally demanding a trade (and potentially still signing later) move. Removing the Ravens from his social media would be a baby step towards mild discontent and he hasn't done that. Like we have stories coming out now about Aaron Rodgers having to go on a darkness retreat to contemplate his future and the Packers are reportedly "disgusted" with him and ready to move on (https://www.forbes.com/sites/robreischel/2023/02/18/report-the-green-bay-packers-are-disgusted-with-aaron-rodgers-and-ready-to-move-on/?sh=42c4e5ef6c62). We all know that A-hole is going to be playing in GB next year right? 29 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: In general I'd say you've been more optimistic about the prospects of Lamar re-signing and that's probably where the difference in opinion on this particular development comes from as well - I'll certainly give you credit if you're right about it, and would love for you to be the one reading this correctly. OF COURSE, I will DEMAND credit WHEN I'm right Edited February 25, 2023 by wackywabbit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 The nice thing is if we do manage to sign Lamar to a realistic deal we can dunk on everyone for all the gossip they (and we but they don’t need to know that) ate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensTillIDie Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Ray Reed said: Most people tend to be pointing to the Falcons so I'll call a different team just to seem prophetic if I end up being right. The Panthers outbid their division rival and we get a 1st, three 2nds, a 3rd, and one of Jaycee Horn or DJ Moore. The Falcons are laughed at as a loser franchise yet again. Ravens fans are surprised at the haul - we think we'd get more. The Panthers win the division next year and get to the NFC Divisional but never get further than that in subsequent years. If the non exclusive tag requires 2 first round picks, I don't see a realm of possibility where a franchise like the Ravens, who absolutely value their draft picks, would accept anything less than that in a trade using the exclusive franchise tag. And if Watson got 3 1st round picks and then some in a trade, you have to believe that is the bare minimum starting point for a GM like EDC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, RavensTillIDie said: If the non exclusive tag requires 2 first round picks, I don't see a realm of possibility where a franchise like the Ravens, who absolutely value their draft picks, would accept anything less than that in a trade using the exclusive franchise tag. And if Watson got 3 1st round picks and then some in a trade, you have to believe that is the bare minimum starting point for a GM like EDC. Yeah i’d be shocked if we only got that as well, that’s why i’m making it my bold prediction to seem prophetic 😎 I also do think there’s an element of truth to the “the team trading for him will have to completely hitch their cap situation to him, so the offers may end up less than we think” takes that are circulating from other fanbases. Teams saw how the Russell trade and contract crippled the Broncos. They see how the Watson deal and contract crippled the Browns. They see how the Kyler deal is screwing AZ with his injury (which is the ? about Lamar). Those bad deals and the immediate tanking of those teams as a result are going to have teams thinking twice and aren’t doing us any favors. I also value Moore/Horn as more than a 1st considering 50% of FRPs bust and they’re proven commodities. So i really see that offer like a 1st+, a 1st, three 2nds, and a 3rd. Certainly not chump change but I agree, I would still be disappointed in a haul resembling that Edited February 25, 2023 by Ray Reed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontTazeMeBro Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) If I was watching another team go through this my take would be that they’re probably going to sign soon. You put out that you never asked for fully guaranteed so it doesn’t look like you caved when you sign the deal. Edit: eh. Maybe. I didn’t see the 133 accusation. Which I actually believe because it’s a FIRST OFFER. But I sure af don’t believe he never demanded a fully guaranteed deal. Because why tf wouldn’t he? Especially when he’s had the entire sports media cheering him on for the past year. Edited February 25, 2023 by DontTazeMeBro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 8:08 PM, Ray Reed said: Yeah i’d be shocked if we only got that as well, that’s why i’m making it my bold prediction to seem prophetic 😎 I also do think there’s an element of truth to the “the team trading for him will have to completely hitch their cap situation to him, so the offers may end up less than we think” takes that are circulating from other fanbases. Teams saw how the Russell trade and contract crippled the Broncos. They see how the Watson deal and contract crippled the Browns. They see how the Kyler deal is screwing AZ with his injury (which is the ? about Lamar). Those bad deals and the immediate tanking of those teams as a result are going to have teams thinking twice and aren’t doing us any favors. I also value Moore/Horn as more than a 1st considering 50% of FRPs bust and they’re proven commodities. So i really see that offer like a 1st+, a 1st, three 2nds, and a 3rd. Certainly not chump change but I agree, I would still be disappointed in a haul resembling that Excellent point plus you got 2 all pros last year in your draft saving salary cap Dollars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 10:08 PM, Ray Reed said: I also value Moore/Horn as more than a 1st considering 50% of FRPs bust and they’re proven commodities. So i really see that offer like a 1st+, a 1st, three 2nds, and a 3rd. Certainly not chump change but I agree, I would still be disappointed in a haul resembling that TL;WR- I’d rather take the FRP with our draft record and hope a Broncos/Cardinals result happens and we get a top 5-10 pick in 2024, then nab Marvin Harrison Jr. Dude looks like he’s going to be THAT dude. I’d rather take the FRP tbqh. Part of the value of the FRP is the cheap contract and with Horn, he’s already going to be entering his third season, thus he’s entering into the part of his first contract tenure where you’re going to start having to consider (especially after trading for him) an extension. DJ Moore already has that extension, so we won’t have to pay the signing bonus, so from that standpoint and along with his age, it wouldn’t be a bad investment. However I’d still rather go after the FRP. I mean if hypothetically we’re trading Lamar (and I don’t believe we will but just hypothetically speaking), I imagine it’s because we don’t like his durability and don’t think he’s going to last through his contract years (which is the only reason guaranteed moneys would be a big deal IMO… as otherwise it’s literally the same thing as non-guaranteed money… as either way it’s got to be paid) then we’d have to partially hope the draft pick could net back not just a FRP pick this year, but a top 5-10 pick next season as well in the event Lamar isn’t durable enough for his new team and they collapse. So the chances that we could get a top 10 pick and the talent that comes along with that is more enticing to me than even a proven above average to good talent. Because even if that’s what we draft we have that talent for 5 years, but we’d still have a chance at someone like Marvin Harrison Jr falling to our pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobellythrower Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 You need a top qb to compete in the afc forget about defense, this year superbowl made that clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 The Byron Jones incident is why I find reports about the team being surprised by Lamar not coming back for the postseason interesting. An athlete that had a 44.5” vertical coming out, is now not able to jump because of the pills and injections given to him for injuries? When an outside opinion might’ve given him more sustainable approaches that would’ve allowed him to play through his contract. I don’t know if other franchises are just run poorly or if the Ravens do things differently, but if team doctors say one thing and a players doctors say another, I’m trusting the players doctors and erring on the side of recovery. Not related to the contract talk much, but just saying. Now hopefully a better S&C program will make it so none of these issues pop up quite so much moving forward. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Nobellythrower said: You need a top qb to compete in the afc forget about defense, this year superbowl made that clear I mean, to be fair, we competed with Tyler Huntley and a legit defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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