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The Lamar offseason talk thread


diamondbull424

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14 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

 

I want to believe the Ravens aren't this stupid, but I'm not so sure anymore. While I've always been in the camp that believes he'll be traded, I just can't wrap my head around it actually being a possibility. This would be one of the biggest fumbles the Ravens have had in franchise history. Aside from keeping Greg Roman, of course.  I also call cap on them being 100 milly apart.

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On 2/1/2023 at 10:02 AM, RavensTillIDie said:

The difference is $45M is guaranteed next year and he is not locked into a 5+ year contract. At the end of next year, even in the event he plays poorly or gets injured, worst case scenario is another tag (minimum of $54M in the second year) or going back to a contract with minimum $133M guaranteed over 5 years. It's a win-win situation for Lamar in terms of money, as long as he doesn't hold out.

If he plays poorly again next year and/or gets hurt is it really guaranteed that he's going to get a massive contract?

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2 hours ago, RavensfanRD said:

I want to believe the Ravens aren't this stupid, but I'm not so sure anymore. While I've always been in the camp that believes he'll be traded, I just can't wrap my head around it actually being a possibility. This would be one of the biggest fumbles the Ravens have had in franchise history. Aside from keeping Greg Roman, of course.  I also call cap on them being 100 milly apart.

I doubt this is accurate. Neither Lamar nor the Ravens camp was releasing contract particulars last season and they were really proud of that.

So I doubt this is coming from either camp. Thus I doubt the legitimacy. If anything I think this would be more likely to come from opposing teams that might want to create some sense of self sabotage so as to have an opportunity to grab Lamar.

But who knows, I also have never heard of this source either, so perhaps there’s some truth.


That said if there is some truth to this, which I doubt, I’d suspect that perhaps it’s not a flat $100m as much as perhaps Lamar might wants a 7 year deal and the Ravens want to give a 5 year deal. The difference in years would contribute to such a grant total.

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^^ For example

Lamar Jackson- 7 years, $315m, 232.5m guaranteed.

vs

Lamar Jackson- 5 years, $225m, $180m guaranteed.


Thus if they settle on 6 years, Perhaps Lamar wants more per year and they settle at $280m. Something like that vs Lamar wanting $55m per and the Ravens wanting to give like $40m per and the end result being $100m. That would be the other way to look at this.

 

At least this is all IMO.

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

If he plays poorly again next year and/or gets hurt is it really guaranteed that he's going to get a massive contract?

By "again" you are declaring that he has been bad. He's consistently elevated a lacking supporting cast on offense and won an MVP when they had a top line (still bottom-tier WRs). Last year the Ravens were 5th in offensive DVOA and top 10 in points per drive at the time he got hurt with most of a season of data. PFF graded Lamar 5th among all quarterbacks. His passer rating is mediocre for the past two years, so I guess that's what you would point to. Every single year he tremendously elevates the offense he's worked with, which is he why has all the leverage he wants.

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Just now, wackywabbit said:

By "again" you are declaring that he has been bad. He's consistently elevated a lacking supporting cast on offense and won an MVP when they had a top line (still bottom-tier WRs). Last year the Ravens were 5th in offensive DVOA and top 10 in points per drive at the time he got hurt with most of a season of data. PFF graded Lamar 5th among all quarterbacks. His passer rating is mediocre for the past two years, so I guess that's what you would point to. Every single year he tremendously elevates the offense he's worked with, which is he why has all the leverage he wants.

His play over the last two seasons definitely hasn't been as good as 2019/2020. I do agree that a lack of talent around him has hurt him a ton though. Drake / Robinson were guys that the Raiders cut and they were both starting for you guys at different points during he season 

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17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

His play over the last two seasons definitely hasn't been as good as 2019/2020. I do agree that a lack of talent around him has hurt him a ton though. Drake / Robinson were guys that the Raiders cut and they were both starting for you guys at different points during he season 

Agree, he's individually had MORE poor plays/games the last 2 years vs the previous 2, which is never isolated from trust in scheme, receivers, blocking, running game, etc.. But that's different than saying he played poorly the last two years. If it was a player who straight up played poorly for 2 years (after 2.5 good years) then this negotiation wouldn't be such a big deal.

The injuries (although both were on hard to fault plays in the pocket that and neither SHOULD be stuff that affects him next season) are a bigger question mark for his value. If he played and couldn't finish the season again, that would give pause for contract talks for sure. When he is on the field, his tremendous value has been proven consistently in how the offense produces vs what it is around/without him.

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2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

Agree, he's individually had MORE poor plays/games the last 2 years vs the previous 2, which is never isolated from trust in scheme, receivers, blocking, running game, etc.. But that's different than saying he played poorly the last two years. If it was a player who straight up played poorly for 2 years (after 2.5 good years) then this negotiation wouldn't be such a big deal.

The injuries (although both were on hard to fault plays in the pocket that and neither SHOULD be stuff that affects him next season) are a bigger question mark for his value. If he played and couldn't finish the season again, that would give pause for contract talks for sure. When he is on the field, his tremendous value has been proven consistently in how the offense produces vs what it is around/without him.

Let me rephrase, I don't think he has played poorly by league standards but he has played poorly in comparison to the way he played in 2019/2020. I agree that he is arguably the most dynamic player in the league but I can understand why the Ravens are hesitant to give him a blank check. 

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Just as I expected. These “new” reports aren’t based off of actual leaks or new knowledge.

I thought it might be other teams trying to sow seeds of doubt and hostility within the Ravens-Lamar relationship, but just as sensible is that the media just needs a story and have been milking this Lamar contract for all its squeeze.

Either way, I doubt we hear any Lamar news from this organization until we hear Lamar news from this organization. We’ve historically not been the type of team to leak these types of things unless you’re dealing with Orlando Brown Jr….

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46 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Just as I expected. These “new” reports aren’t based off of actual leaks or new knowledge.

I thought it might be other teams trying to sow seeds of doubt and hostility within the Ravens-Lamar relationship, but just as sensible is that the media just needs a story and have been milking this Lamar contract for all its squeeze.

Either way, I doubt we hear any Lamar news from this organization until we hear Lamar news from this organization. We’ve historically not been the type of team to leak these types of things unless you’re dealing with Orlando Brown Jr….

Just like with the O's, my mind won't be at ease until contracts are signed! Beginning of March is gonna be an interesting time if LJ8 isn't signed by then.

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12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Hard to imagine it's other teams trying to sow doubt when the talks between Lamar/EDC are directly between Lamar and EDC. Both parties know exactly how far apart they are since there's no middle-man.

True. But chaos is chaos. If opposing teams put this kind of stuff out there, perhaps it sows chaos amongst those within Lamar’s circle.

We have no idea how involved those in Lamar’s camp are involved and if everyone involved are present for every meeting. So perhaps that’s what teams could be targeting.
 

But the grander point is, if it’s just Lamar and EDC then how could such a report come out in the first place? I didn’t believe it for that reason alone. It’s not like Lamar has an agent that is trying to strategically “play the game” to drum up trade interest and this isn’t the kind of report that the Ravens would benefit from internally either.

So it wouldn’t make sense for either Lamar or the Ravens to leak this report. So it always made sense that it wasn’t legit news and just speculation.

Edited by diamondbull424
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It's funny how consistent the messaging is from players (offensive and defensive and special teams) and coaches and executives on the team is about Lamar.... and yet none of it actually trends to being "news"

Yet, somehow those quotes about Sammy Watkins (apparently) "calling Lamar out for not playing" is a headline

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11 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

It's funny how consistent the messaging is from players (offensive and defensive and special teams) and coaches and executives on the team is about Lamar.... and yet none of it actually trends to being "news"

Yet, somehow those quotes about Sammy Watkins (apparently) "calling Lamar out for not playing" is a headline

Yeah it’s obvious that the media has it out for him and because he’s so private and doesn’t have an agent that controls messaging for him, he’s an easier target.


But hey many people would rather believe the media’s made up assertions when they recycle year old news.

They were wrong about the guarantees that the organization had offered Lamar and that’s coming from Lamar himself.


So I’m just not sure why people buy into the major media “news” that is nothing more than speculation and assumption. Until they say something definitive like “Lamar has been traded to” or “Lamar has been franchised” or “Lamar has signed a 5-7 year deal worth”, then none of it is truly news, just story telling.

The moment Lamar signs, the next thing they’ll do is ask (even though they’re all talking about how the Ravens should pay Lamar), “did the Ravens pay too much for Lamar, is it worth paying this much to a running QB?” Blah blah blah. I can’t wait until a deal is done and someone else is up, so hopefully the questions will at least pertain to Lamar’s performance on the football field and not the made up BS they pass off as news.

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