Off-Ball Linebacker Talk

[MOSteelers56]

I've heard some pretty negative views on this years class of off-ball backers, but is that truly the case? I've really liked what I've seen so far from Jack Campbell, Trenton Simpson, and Drew Sanders. I really like the potential Sanders has. He's new to the position and played really well last season, racking up 100 tackles. I think by year 2 he's a dude. Campbell's size is really intriguing. He's an old school guy. His coverage isn't great, but I think his length will help make up for being a small step too slow. 

[Tetsujin]

Sanders looks really lean and tall. It'll be interesting to see how he adapts.

Jack Campbell had the highest coverage grade amongst LBs in college football, per PFF.

[MOSteelers56]

2 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

Sanders looks really lean and tall. It'll be interesting to see how he adapts.

Jack Campbell had the highest coverage grade amongst LBs in college football, per PFF.

I should have said his athleticism isn't great. I think his brains and length make his coverage better than people will think. That's interesting about PFF, though. I didn't know that. 

[Tetsujin]

I'd love to see JC in Miami if he falls to us at 51. We need a solid player and leader at ILB.

[Daniel]

Not a strong class IMO.  Campbell is my top guy, but Overshown and Simpson have a lot more potential.  I think people have the wrong idea on Simpson.  His strength isn't being a great off the ball LB, his strength is versatility, and without a creative DC, a team that spends an early pick on him is likely to be disappointed, IMO.  Athletic as **** though.

I like Ventrell Miller as a second day reclamation project more.  And Aaron Beasley out of Tennessee is a late round gem.

Noah Sewell shouldn't be picked before Day 3 IMO.  I don't know what people see there at all.

[MOSteelers56]

12 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I think people have the wrong idea on Simpson.  His strength isn't being a great off the ball LB, his strength is versatility, and without a creative DC, a team that spends an early pick on him is likely to be disappointed, IMO.

So in your view he's more Isaiah Simmons than Ryan Shazier?

[Daniel]

49 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

So in your view he's more Isaiah Simmons than Ryan Shazier?

I don't remember anything I thought about Isaiah Simmons as a prospect, but probably.

[BetterCallSaul]

Worst LB class that I can remember.

Campbell is average as can be. 
Sewell is nice, but limited. 
Simpson is all world upside, but technically bleh.  
Overshown is an elite athlete but disengagement is awful. 
Pappoe is the best dude, but he’s very undersized. 
Sanders is like Simpson, but a better rusher. 
 

I don’t think I’d spend a draft pick on anyone else. Dreadful class. 

[Daniel]

30 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Worst LB class that I can remember.

Campbell is average as can be. 
Sewell is nice, but limited. 
Simpson is all world upside, but technically bleh.  
Overshown is an elite athlete but disengagement is awful. 
Pappoe is the best dude, but he’s very undersized. 
Sanders is like Simpson, but a better rusher. 
 

I don’t think I’d spend a draft pick on anyone else. Dreadful class. 

Who's this?  I've been getting LB rankings finalized and I thought I had looked at everyone anyone is talking about, but he's not on that list.

[Ozzy]

31 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Worst LB class that I can remember.

Campbell is average as can be. 
Sewell is nice, but limited. 
Simpson is all world upside, but technically bleh.  
Overshown is an elite athlete but disengagement is awful. 
Pappoe is the best dude, but he’s very undersized. 
Sanders is like Simpson, but a better rusher. 
 

I don’t think I’d spend a draft pick on anyone else. Dreadful class. 

If Jack Campbell is a legit 6-5 245, if he can run he is very legit.  But does depend on how he times.  Dude is a tackling machine and in the right system most likely a 3/4 he could be a monster ILB if paired with a more athletic coverage type ILB.

 

Ivan Pace Jr could be the best OLB in the draft, love his change of direction ability, has a monster season and got after the passer and is great tackling in space and getting off blocks.  Really promising player with his athletic ability and range for the position.  Depends how he tests but I imagine he will test great especially in his change of direction ability.

 

Henry To'o To'o could end up being an extremely productive pro, he is super smart and knows how to read and react.  He could be solid for years in the NFL and was great as a FR-SR basically every year.  Drake Thomas is promising with his athletic ability and ability to rush the passer as a ILB, but depends on how he times out.  

 

Cam Jones has great speed at the linebacker spot and has very good range combined with decent size.  Jeremy Banks has good upside as an athletic speed LB, Charlie Thomas is another very speedy linebacker who can cover and in the right system could be very effective.  

 

 

But sure it is not a super deep group, Pappoe is not the best dude in my opinion, he has been pretty disappointing the past two years.  Could argue the LB position in general is very down because most teams want safeties who can play linebacker and linebackers then become edge rushers.  But the guys who can run and hit like on the 49ers are still extremely productive in the NFL, if you have range, can cover, blitz and tackle aggressively they can still be impactful.

 

Sewell had an awful year but the year previous he looked great, could have been just the system change.  

 

[Hawkeyejam]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

If Jack Campbell is a legit 6-5 245, if he can run he is very legit.  But does depend on how he times.  Dude is a tackling machine and in the right system most likely a 3/4 he could be a monster ILB if paired with a more athletic coverage type ILB.

 

Ivan Pace Jr could be the best OLB in the draft, love his change of direction ability, has a monster season and got after the passer and is great tackling in space and getting off blocks.  Really promising player with his athletic ability and range for the position.  Depends how he tests but I imagine he will test great especially in his change of direction ability.

 

Henry To'o To'o could end up being an extremely productive pro, he is super smart and knows how to read and react.  He could be solid for years in the NFL and was great as a FR-SR basically every year.  Drake Thomas is promising with his athletic ability and ability to rush the passer as a ILB, but depends on how he times out.  

 

Cam Jones has great speed at the linebacker spot and has very good range combined with decent size.  Jeremy Banks has good upside as an athletic speed LB, Charlie Thomas is another very speedy linebacker who can cover and in the right system could be very effective.  

 

 

But sure it is not a super deep group, Pappoe is not the best dude in my opinion, he has been pretty disappointing the past two years.  Could argue the LB position in general is very down because most teams want safeties who can play linebacker and linebackers then become edge rushers.  But the guys who can run and hit like on the 49ers are still extremely productive in the NFL, if you have range, can cover, blitz and tackle aggressively they can still be impactful.

 

Sewell had an awful year but the year previous he looked great, could have been just the system change.  

 

I'm 6'2 225 and Campbell is right about 6'5 and I'd be shocked if he was under 240. He's a massive human being. I dont know what Campbell will run but I think he will surprise people at combine. He's by no means Tremaine Edmunds athletic but started on a back to back state champion basketball team in High School at Iowa's largest division. In addition he was believed to be a Division 1 recruit in basketball if he chose to pursue that route.

I think him being considered a throwback ILB has hurt the perception of his athletic ability. 

Josey Jewell is starting for the Broncos, Christian Kirksey/Anthony Kitchens carved out very long careers in the league as have the Niemann brothers. Campbell is without question the best LBer to come out of Iowa in last ten years and likely best ever. He's a very safe value pick as a 2nd rounder. Checks nearly every box. My one concern is he can sometimes be caught flat footed but not a consistent issue to be concerned and dude loves football. No red flags from him as a person.

One guy to watch as a sleeper is the other LBer in Seth Benson. He's a tweener undersized guy, but makes plays. A guy that could be had in Rds 4-7 that likely that will stick as a rotational, situational, ST guy. Really good college 4-3 Will. Won't be a star but a guy I see could land an active roster 

[BetterCallSaul]

31 minutes ago, Hawkeyejam said:

I'm 6'2 225 and Campbell is right about 6'5 and I'd be shocked if he was under 240. He's a massive human being. I dont know what Campbell will run but I think he will surprise people at combine. He's by no means Tremaine Edmunds athletic but started on a back to back state champion basketball team in High School at Iowa's largest division. In addition he was believed to be a Division 1 recruit in basketball if he chose to pursue that route.

I think him being considered a throwback ILB has hurt the perception of his athletic ability. 

Josey Jewell is starting for the Broncos, Christian Kirksey/Anthony Kitchens carved out very long careers in the league as have the Niemann brothers. Campbell is without question the best LBer to come out of Iowa in last ten years and likely best ever. He's a very safe value pick as a 2nd rounder. Checks nearly every box. My one concern is he can sometimes be caught flat footed but not a consistent issue to be concerned and dude loves football. No red flags from him as a person.

One guy to watch as a sleeper is the other LBer in Seth Benson. He's a tweener undersized guy, but makes plays. A guy that could be had in Rds 4-7 that likely that will stick as a rotational, situational, ST guy. Really good college 4-3 Will. Won't be a star but a guy I see could land an active roster 

Campbell is gonna time nicely. He just is very overrated as far as reading and reacting. I know people see a white LB and assume he can tackle and is elite with his reads. Stereotyping these dudes. But Campbell is actually very slow to trigger in the run game and while he is a good wrap-up tackler, he’s not much of a stop hitter. He’s got good instincts as a zone dropper, sure. But he’s not this awesome run fitter. I was surprised when I watched tape at how slow he was to react. Not how slow he was tracking, but that initial read.

I do like Seth Benson actually. He’s a little spark plug. I like Campbell more, but Benson is the more aggressive of the two and still has some coverage skills. 

[BetterCallSaul]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Who's this?  I've been getting LB rankings finalized and I thought I had looked at everyone anyone is talking about, but he's not on that list.

Owen Pappoe. Auburn. He’s gonna be excellent as a true WILL linebacker. His stats won’t wow you, but he’s a great athlete, hits like a ton of bricks, disengages with pop in his pads despite size concerns, and is great at reading & reacting. Plays the LB position with the right amount of patience/violence mixture. 

[Ozzy]

12 minutes ago, Hawkeyejam said:

I'm 6'2 225 and Campbell is right about 6'5 and I'd be shocked if he was under 240. He's a massive human being. I dont know what Campbell will run but I think he will surprise people at combine. He's by no means Tremaine Edmunds athletic but started on a back to back state champion basketball team in High School at Iowa's largest division. In addition he was believed to be a Division 1 recruit in basketball if he chose to pursue that route.

I think him being considered a throwback ILB has hurt the perception of his athletic ability. 

Josey Jewell is starting for the Broncos, Christian Kirksey/Anthony Kitchens carved out very long careers in the league as have the Niemann brothers. Campbell is without question the best LBer to come out of Iowa in last ten years and likely best ever. He's a very safe value pick as a 2nd rounder. Checks nearly every box. My one concern is he can sometimes be caught flat footed but not a consistent issue to be concerned and dude loves football. No red flags from him as a person.

One guy to watch as a sleeper is the other LBer in Seth Benson. He's a tweener undersized guy, but makes plays. A guy that could be had in Rds 4-7 that likely that will stick as a rotational, situational, ST guy. Really good college 4-3 Will. Won't be a star but a guy I see could land an active roster 

I agree, for his massive size Campbell is pretty damn athletic and a very good player.  To me he is worth a 1st round pick but so many teams want over coverage speedy LBs.  If Campbell runs well no question he will be 1st round but if not he could drop.  He could be just fine in the right system, on the Steelers he would do very well in their 3/4 I feel, same with the Dolphins and maybe the Giants, I have him going to Washington right now because they need a force in the middle I feel.  

Campbell is a great player considering his massive size at linebacker and he could be a force as a tackler because simply put not many linebackers are his size anymore.  And he has decent awareness in coverage but sure is not great 40 yards downfield covering a slot WR.  

 

Benson I agree could be a decent ILB and solid late round pick.  Still surprised Joe Evans did not declare, he was a solid edge rusher in a 3/4 potentially and would have been drafted I feel.  Not sure returning will increase his stock all that much.

[BetterCallSaul]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

If Jack Campbell is a legit 6-5 245, if he can run he is very legit.  But does depend on how he times.  Dude is a tackling machine and in the right system most likely a 3/4 he could be a monster ILB if paired with a more athletic coverage type ILB.

I think Campbell is gonna time fine. He plays slower than he is because of his trigger speed.

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Ivan Pace Jr could be the best OLB in the draft, love his change of direction ability, has a monster season and got after the passer and is great tackling in space and getting off blocks.  Really promising player with his athletic ability and range for the position.  Depends how he tests but I imagine he will test great especially in his change of direction ability.

Pace is not a great athlete. I love his game, but I think he’s gonna struggle to play with the big boys. He’s not particularly good at anything other than “bringing it” on an every down basis. He’s a tough kid, but he is smaller and slower than most starting LBs.

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Henry To'o To'o could end up being an extremely productive pro, he is super smart and knows how to read and react.  He could be solid for years in the NFL and was great as a FR-SR basically every year.  Drake Thomas is promising with his athletic ability and ability to rush the passer as a ILB, but depends on how he times out.  

He is so bad at disengaging from blocks. It’s like he runs away from OL rather than uses his hands to shock. I think he’s going to be another stat grabber who might have a lot of tackles, despite not being as good as the numbers indicate. He shoots windows with more aggression than Campbell, but is hesitant if there isn’t a gap to fly through.

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Cam Jones has great speed at the linebacker spot and has very good range combined with decent size.  Jeremy Banks has good upside as an athletic speed LB, Charlie Thomas is another very speedy linebacker who can cover and in the right system could be very effective.  

Cam Jones is a thumper. He has speed in a straight line, but is not good in space. I could see him contributing with a 3-4 squad, but I am not sure he’s gonna start. 
 

Haven’t watched Banks. Charlie Thomas is someone I would consider late, but he’s a major project and not at all a refined LB. More of a nickel LBer, but he could be effective in that role.

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

But sure it is not a super deep group, Pappoe is not the best dude in my opinion, he has been pretty disappointing the past two years.

I would say his stats have been disappointing. But he’s been great as far as assignment and flashing the ability to do the things he’ll be asked to do in the NFL. Plus he does have that wild upside. 

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

 

Could argue the LB position in general is very down because most teams want safeties who can play linebacker and linebackers then become edge rushers.  But the guys who can run and hit like on the 49ers are still extremely productive in the NFL, if you have range, can cover, blitz and tackle aggressively they can still be impactful.

Yeah and that’s why NFL defenses are getting gashed in the run game every week. This move to small speedy linebackers isn’t making defenses better & the stats back that up. Teams that invest, and play the game with real LBs have been excellent, especially at making teams 1-dimensional. 

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Sewell had an awful year but the year previous he looked great, could have been just the system change.  

He is an @$$ kicker that puts holes through peoples chests. He’s definitely flawed, but he’s got an insanely fast trigger and has stopping power on a level not many other MLBs in the NFL can claim. He’s also not totally useless in coverage, although he’s pretty much a zone dropper. I think he’s gonna decimate the A and B gaps in the pros. Teams that run longer power tracks with multiple TEs will be tough for him, as I could see his aggressive nature and lack of elite lateral speed getting him pinned inside on down blocks. But Zone and Iso teams are gonna get a face full of angry Samoan.