What does Sean do now?

[AKRNA]

36 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

We now see the problem with inexperienced owners who don’t empower their GM and are as much, if not more, concerned with PR and “winning the news cycle” than they are about making solid decisions. 

An experienced and competent owner, or one that allows their GM to do GM duties, would ask all potential HC candidates for their top 2-3 (or more) candidates for coordinators and position coaches. It’s clear the Walmarts did not do that with Sean Payton as he is just hiring guys from the Saints, keeping a few guys from Hackett’s staff and going for odd-ball, off-the-wall choices like Ryan and Vance for the most important assistant coach job on the staff. 

I think it’s clear Sean didn’t have a plan when he got the job and it’s even more clear the Walmarts did not care. They’ve got their lackeys out there in the media spinning the talking points about Sean being “diligent” but it’s obvious to the more informed fans that he’s flying by the seat of his pants. 

This could work out, I’m not saying it won’t, but it could also very well crash and burn. 

Well, "empowering" their GM hasn't really worked out too well:  Hackett, Russ and his contract to name a few.

Keep in mind, the Bronco's have never been a GM driven team. Gherke is as close as it gets but he carried multiple titles.

[AnAngryAmerican]

39 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Well, "empowering" their GM hasn't really worked out too well:  Hackett, Russ and his contract to name a few.

Keep in mind, the Bronco's have never been a GM driven team. Gherke is as close as it gets but he carried multiple titles.

Look, the Hackett hire didn’t work out. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, I can very much see the appeal George saw there. The trade for Russ and the contract extension were lauded at the time by nearly everyone; you don’t trade that much for what you think is a HOF player at the most important position and then not lock him up long-term. 30 other GMs or HCs who have GM powers would have done the same.

You don’t like George, fine. But that was not at all the point I was making about Sean and the Walmarts. 

[The Helicopter]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Look, the Hackett hire didn’t work out. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again, I can very much see the appeal George saw there. The trade for Russ and the contract extension were lauded at the time by nearly everyone; you don’t trade that much for what you think is a HOF player at the most important position and then not lock him up long-term. 30 other GMs or HCs who have GM powers would have done the same.

You don’t like George, fine. But that was not at all the point I was making about Sean and the Walmarts. 

You both (and me also) seem concerned about where this franchise is currently and is heading. Picking apart the details and the bigger picture doesn't seem to change the overall concern, but is certainly enjoyable to read. There were mistakes (and red flags) and continue to be across the board. I think we should start placing bets on when Paton bails on this ship...

[jolly red giant]

I don't know how anyone can argue that Paton is the problem - overall he has been a breath of fresh air in the place and been a very solid GM.

He made two mistakes -

- hiring Hackett - but every GM is allowed one f*ck-up when hiring a coach. Before Paton we had Joseph and Fangio - its not like he is the only one to mess up a HC hire in Denver or across the NFL

- trading for Wilson - but as AAA has said - every GM needing a QB would have made that trade. And I would be surprised if the Walmarts weren't consulted about the contract - again a contract that every GM in the league would have signed.

A few days ago I also expressed the view that the hiring of Payton was a panic move after other options (Harbaugh, Quinn and Ryans) disappeared off the shelf. The Walmarts could have ended up severely embarrassed by the options left other than Payton. I think if they had pulled the trigger earlier on Payton then he might have had more options for his coaching staff. I suspect that he expected Fangio to be his DC - but Fangio whiffed at coming back to Denver only a year after being sacked and he was made the top paid coordinator in the NFL by the Dolphins. 

So far the coaching hires seem okay - even if they are Saints rethreads - the key decision is DC and that is where Payton could stand or fall. Getting the DC wrong and ruining this defence will completely undermine whatever Payton does with the offence.  The problem is that there is a dearth of quality candidates out there at the moment and quite a few DC jobs available.

[jolly red giant]

By the way - you have to give credit to Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch for moving quickly to hire Steve Wilks to replace Ryans.

[paul-mac]

Three weeks until the legal tampering period starts and we still don't even know who the coordinators are. Hard for Paton to plan for FA when he doesn't even know what scheme he's recruiting players for yet.

[broncos67]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Three weeks until the legal tampering period starts and we still don't even know who the coordinators are. Hard for Paton to plan for FA when he doesn't even know what scheme he's recruiting players for yet.

Yeah, this is a cluster. But I'm not totally shocked. Whatever we had going with Desai clearly fell through. I still have no idea why Rex Ryan is being entertained other than he's a media personality just like Payton. He'd be the most overrated hire possible. 

On offense I think it's a little less mission critical because Payton is going to be in charge. I'm hoping for Anthony Lynn personally.

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Three weeks until the legal tampering period starts and we still don't even know who the coordinators are. Hard for Paton to plan for FA when he doesn't even know what scheme he's recruiting players for yet.

Well for O it's Payton's scheme.    The OC doesn't matter nearly as much.

For the D, we're not equipped to transition to a 4-3 this year.    So that's likely going to help Paton direction-wise.

The surprising non-hire has been Desai TBH.   Out of the 4 guys being talked about, he's the guy who has upside future-wise (Kris Richard's work in DAL wasn't awful, but didn't stand out either).    Would love to know what led to his stock dropping post-Payton interview.

[1234567]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Yeah, this is a cluster. But I'm not totally shocked. Whatever we had going with Desai clearly fell through. I still have no idea why Rex Ryan is being entertained other than he's a media personality just like Payton. He'd be the most overrated hire possible. 

On offense I think it's a little less mission critical because Payton is going to be in charge. I'm hoping for Anthony Lynn personally.

Depends on which version we’d get. In his 4 seasons as DC of the Ravens and first 3 as HC of the Jets, his defensive rankings by year in DVOA went: 6, 1, 6, 2, 1, 6, 2.

In EPA/Play they went: 4, 1, 19, 1, 1, 6, 4. 

I’d take those numbers any day. But there’s little denying the sharp drop off over his last 5 seasons where his defenses were pedestrian at a best. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

5 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Three weeks until the legal tampering period starts and we still don't even know who the coordinators are. Hard for Paton to plan for FA when he doesn't even know what scheme he's recruiting players for yet.

Well and the combine starts next week. Even Klis was on The Fan saying it’s taking too long. I outlined it before but it’s clear the Walmarts just wanted the celebrity hire and Sean had no plan in the works for his staff, he’s hired nothing but guys from the Saints. Chad Brown even said it’s becoming like musical chairs in that before long the music is going to stop and we’re going to be the staff without a chair. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, 1234567 said:

Depends on which version we’d get. In his 4 seasons as DC of the Ravens and first 3 as HC of the Jets, his defensive rankings by year in DVOA went: 6, 1, 6, 2, 1, 6, 2.

In EPA/Play they went: 4, 1, 19, 1, 1, 6, 4. 

I’d take those numbers any day. But there’s little denying the sharp drop off over his last 5 seasons where his defenses were pedestrian at a best. 

But he’s been out is the league for 6 years. He’s done nothing since we won SB50 other than spout off about the Cowboys and Brady on ESPN’s vapid, big market, east coast centric pregame show. 

Edited February 22 by AnAngryAmerican

[jolly red giant]

1 hour ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

But he’s been out is the league for 6 years. He’s done nothing since we won SB50 other than spout off about the Cowboys and Brady on ESPN’s vapid, big market, east coast centric pregame show. 

Any suggestion as to who they should be looking at ? - because I can’t think of anyone.

[1234567]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

But he’s been out is the league for 6 years. He’s done nothing since we won SB50 other than spout off about the Cowboys and Brady on ESPN’s vapid, big market, east coast centric pregame show. 

True story. I would imagine you kind of lose all of the the little nuances of coaching after that long of a break. I’m trying to remember if there are any coaches in recent times who have come out of a long retirement that way and actually did well. Can’t really think of any. 

[grizmo78]

29 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

Any suggestion as to who they should be looking at ? - because I can’t think of anyone.

I'll just throw out some names I've come across (ie not necessarily my recommendations):

Jerod Mayo

Jim Leonhard 

Glenn Schumann

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

I'll just throw out some names I've come across (ie not necessarily my recommendations):

Jerod Mayo

Jim Leonhard 

Glenn Schumann

Leonhard just turned down the Eagles job - he's taking a year off for personal health reasons.  Mayo is just so unproven as a DC, Flores is the only Pats' D assistant that's worked out as a DC outside of NE.    Schumann is intriguing, he's been great at Georgia, but obv the Q is how well he translates to the NFL, after leading talent-stacked D's. 

I'd still prefer those guys to Rex Ryan - while his success early on in NY (and prior work in BAL) can't be denied, it's literally 2-3 cycles ago in terms of what O's / D's do to succeed.     I still can't recall a co-ordinator who came back after such a long layoff and succeeded (going to college doesn't count, as you're still doing the active coaching and staying up to date on what's changing).

Edited February 22 by Broncofan