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What does Sean do now?


AKRNA

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I'm very curious to see how our defensive players respond to this after having Vic and Evero. Though I'm of the belief that our defense played way above skill level cause of great coaching, I also think many of them will retain what they learned. Point being if Vance tells them to do something that they know is trash, what happens in that locker room or behind closed doors?

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43 minutes ago, grizmo78 said:

That’s great news. The bad news? Apparently Patricia is going to be our linebackers coach.

I mentioned this in another post - but the 2 areas where VJ's D's have struggled in particular are with run D and TE pass coverage.    Patricia being in charge of the LB group gives me zero confidence we'll be better in those 2 areas.  Ugh.

EDIT:   OMG, I'm so relieved to find out Patricia isn't that guy.   Honestly think a corpse would be an upgrade on Patricia.

Edited by Broncofan
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I’ll certainly take Vance over Patricia and it’s good news Patricia won’t be DC or on the staff in any capacity. I was really at a coin flip between Vance and Rex, Rex has a higher ceiling but is also a blow hard who’s been pontificating on ESPN rather than coaching in the NFL the last 6 years. Vance I think has a lower ceiling but a higher floor and we know he won’t be leaving for a HC job anytime soon the ReX would have at least tried to.

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One of my favorite comments from a fan, after news of VJ’s hiring broke…The only wrong decision would have been hiring Patricia, so the Broncos passed the test IMO

or this one…I think that the Broncos made the right choice in Vance Joseph, but part of me was hoping for them to take Matt Patricia safely out of Foxboro

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13 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

 

Again, I'll take anyone over the disaster of Matt Patricia.

Wilhoite's work with Drue Tranquill gives optimism.    His failure to help Kenneth Murray gives some pause, but Murray is a guy who just lacks any football instincts.    Hopeful Wilhoite will be an asset with the LB corps here and help improve our TE/RB pass coverage.

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1 hour ago, grizmo78 said:

I was curious so here's what I put together for context of how VJs defenses has done over the years.

 

Cardinals Defensive rankings: 

In 2022: 31st in Points, 21st in Yards

In 2021: 11th in Points, 11th in Yards

In 2020: 12th in Points, 13th in Yards

In 2019: 28th in Points, 32nd in Yards

In 2018 (Before VJ for context): 26th in Points, 20th in Yards

 

Broncos Defensive Rankings (surrounding VJ):

2019 (Denver Defense for Context): 10th in Points, 12th in Yards

2018 (VJ as Denver HC): 13th in Points, 22nd in Yards

2017 (VJ as Denver HC): 22nd in Points, 3rd in Yards

2016 (Denver Defense of Context): 4th in Points, 4th in Yards

 

Dolphins Defense (Surrounding VJ):

2017 (Miami Defense as Context): 29th in Points, 16th in Yards

2016 (VJ as DC): 18th in Points, 29th in Yards

2015 (Miami Defense as Context): 19th in Points, 25th in Yards

 

In 7 years as a DC/HC, he has:

- NEVER had a top 10 defense

- Had a top 15 defense in points 3/7 years and in yards 3/7 years

- Had a bottom 10 defense in points 3/7 years and in yards 3/7 years (4/7 years if you make it bottom 11)

Should clarify I was measuring by DVOA, which while imperfect gives a clearer overall picture. DVOA and yards per play are the two I usually look to first.

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Just now, Broncofan said:

Again, I'll take anyone over the disaster of Matt Patricia.

Wilhoite's work with Drue Tranquill gives optimism.    His failure to help Kenneth Murray gives some pause, but Murray is a guy who just lacks any football instincts.    Hopeful Wilhoite will be an asset with the LB corps here and help improve our TE/RB pass coverage.

Yeah I think Murray is who he was always going to be at this level. A heat seeking missile who doesn’t have a great feel for the game.

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

 

The context works both ways for Joseph and his ARI time.

In 2019 & 2022, ARI was a bottom-half & bottom 10 D by DVOA (20th in 2019, 24th in 2022).  In 2020 & 2021, they were 10th and 6th.   

In 2019, the Cards D roster was really thin - Chandler Jones was still at peak level of play, and Budda Baker was great, but their DL had no difference makers, and their LB/CB starters were unimpressive (Gardecki was a 2nd year guy still as a backup, and Zach Allen was a rookie)

In 2020, the Cards added Isiaih Simmons in the draft and Devondre Campbell via FA to upgrade the ILB corps in a massive way, Jordan Phillips for the DL (plus Zach Allen began to play more) and Dre Kirkpatrick to play along Patrick Peterson at starting CB to really upgrade the talent.    Joseph enjoyed a lot of success with that top 5 DVOA season, but the D talent upgrade was massive.

In 2021, the Cards lost key guys like Campbell, Phillips & Kirkpatrick - but they gained JJ Watt (massive as an interior disruptor, Markus Golden to add some pass rush help to Jones (who was starting to decline), and Zaven Collins / Isiaih Simmons in his 2nd year (as a tweener) in the ILB corps to help offset some of Campbell's play (but didn't do it completely obv).   The Cards were a good D, but not as great - but the drop in talent was noticeable.

In 2022, the talent just fell apart - the Cards lost their top 3 CB's for a good chunk of the season, JJ Watt missed a bunch of time, Chandler Jones & Devondre Campbell  both left (to be fair, Jones looks cooked, but losing Campbell hurt in a big way, and none of the young guys looked good this year).   Zach Allen, Budda Baker & Gardeck were the only guys who stood out with JJ Watt.   The rest of the D was pretty bad.    

 

Their talent at corner ranged from horrible to below average. He’s getting a massive personnel upgrade there. 

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This news shouldn't surprise anyone - Joe Lombardi joining the staff.

 

Need to be really clear - Joe Lombardi on his own is a massive minus.    His work in DET in 2014-5 with Stafford /  Megatron & Golden Tate was one of the worst ever (how Stafford got the nickname Stat Padford).  His work the last 2 years in neutering Justin Herbert into a checkdown thrower on 1st/2nd down after a sensational rookie year (and for which Herbert's talent masks the limits of the O scheme Lombardi used) are really well documented.   Personally, I would hope Payton can bring in Ronald Curry from NO - because there's upside and room for growth.

But, either way, as long as Payton's running the O, Lombardi's just an assistant who can't hurt the O like he did in DET & LAC.   So won't get nearly as concerned here. 

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35 minutes ago, Dbrog24 said:

I'm very curious to see how our defensive players respond to this after having Vic and Evero. Though I'm of the belief that our defense played way above skill level cause of great coaching, I also think many of them will retain what they learned. Point being if Vance tells them to do something that they know is trash, what happens in that locker room or behind closed doors?

That to me is the greatest cause of concern. VJ isn't going to be getting a greatly talented cast, just an extremely well coached one. Relying on talent alone I think it's quite possible we suffer a huge drop in defensive production next year.

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