topwop1 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: The butt fumble is certainly infamous, but I think one could make a pretty solid case Sanchez was far from awful. Maybe--below average backup? Which is fine, as we're aren't winning games regardless. It doesn't matter anyway, as benching Trubisky now would be a mistake, too. It just scares the hell out of me to see him getting worse, which he's clearly doing... He's not getting worse. Talk about overreacting to one game against the league's best team. Again, these types of comments are why Chicago has never been able to develop a QB properly aside from poor management and inept offensive coaching. To say Sanchez is a better option is clearly a short sighted view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, topwop1 said: He's not getting worse. Talk about overreacting to one game against the league's best team. Again, these types of comments are why Chicago has never been able to develop a QB properly aside from poor management and inept offensive coaching. To say Sanchez is a better option is clearly a short sighted view. No, what I'm saying is that Sanchez probably was the better option back when the wheels first fell off Glennon, and the staff not going that route (and allowing Trubisky longer to learn) was now, obviously, a mistake. And while everything can be seen as lumped together in situations like the Bears have going on now (Howard getting seven carries is unacceptable, for example, regardless of the score), I don't see how you'd argue Trubisky has really shown any improvement at all over the last two games. I think (and we certainly can disagree) we've seen a pretty clear regression. Doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or the kid is ruined...nothing like that. I'm simply hoping he's as tough as Pace and Fox think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51to54 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 hours ago, blkwdw13 said: The Bears have ran on 1st down 9 out of 12 times through the first three quarters. Running 75 pct of the time on first down may be the reason they can't run the ball for plus yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 16 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: The butt fumble is certainly infamous, but I think one could make a pretty solid case Sanchez was far from awful. Maybe--below average backup? Which is fine, as we're aren't winning games regardless. It doesn't matter anyway, as benching Trubisky now would be a mistake, too. It just scares the hell out of me to see him getting worse, which he's clearly doing... Below average backup IS awful. Look at some of the crap that’s currently #2/3 on QB depth charts around the league. I wouldn’t say Trubisky is regressing. He certainly struggled today but that is TO BE EXPECTED with a rookie QB. If your expectation is a steady progression from 13-start college QB to NFL superstar with no bumps along the way then your expectation is totally unrealistic. That was the best team in the league that kicked his *** today, and he’s piloting a bottom dwelling ship right now. He’s also playing with one hand tied behind his back with this scheme. Patience is a virtue. Mitch still should get the benefit of that because of where he is in his career. Fox, on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: No, what I'm saying is that Sanchez probably was the better option back when the wheels first fell off Glennon, and the staff not going that route (and allowing Trubisky longer to learn) was now, obviously, a mistake. And while everything can be seen as lumped together in situations like the Bears have going on now (Howard getting seven carries is unacceptable, for example, regardless of the score), I don't see how you'd argue Trubisky has really shown any improvement at all over the last two games. I think (and we certainly can disagree) we've seen a pretty clear regression. Doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or the kid is ruined...nothing like that. I'm simply hoping he's as tough as Pace and Fox think he is. From last game he certainly didn't improve but again let's put things into perspective a little. He was on the road against the best team in the NFL with not a lot of help. I thought he played a pretty good game against the Lions the week prior and he certainly showed some moxie in leading his team back for a chance at a game tying fg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: No, what I'm saying is that Sanchez probably was the better option back when the wheels first fell off Glennon, and the staff not going that route (and allowing Trubisky longer to learn) was now, obviously, a mistake. And while everything can be seen as lumped together in situations like the Bears have going on now (Howard getting seven carries is unacceptable, for example, regardless of the score), I don't see how you'd argue Trubisky has really shown any improvement at all over the last two games. I think (and we certainly can disagree) we've seen a pretty clear regression. Doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or the kid is ruined...nothing like that. I'm simply hoping he's as tough as Pace and Fox think he is. You didn’t watch Mitch lead what should have been a game tying 2-minute drive last week without his best TE or RB on the field at all and his best WR only half the time? See him lead a woeful squad talent-wise to 24 points (27 if Barth wasn’t terrible) against a pretty solid Lions defense? Not sure how you didn’t see the growth there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 28 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: You didn’t watch Mitch lead what should have been a game tying 2-minute drive last week without his best TE or RB on the field at all and his best WR only half the time? See him lead a woeful squad talent-wise to 24 points (27 if Barth wasn’t terrible) against a pretty solid Lions defense? Not sure how you didn’t see the growth there. He had his moments, for sure. He even did today, really. But yeah...he's getting more inaccurate, more tentative, and he's making worse decisions. That isn't growth. It's also not the end of the world, just legitimate cause for concern. 32 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Below average backup IS awful. Look at some of the crap that’s currently #2/3 on QB depth charts around the league. I wouldn’t say Trubisky is regressing. He certainly struggled today but that is TO BE EXPECTED with a rookie QB. If your expectation is a steady progression from 13-start college QB to NFL superstar with no bumps along the way then your expectation is totally unrealistic. That was the best team in the league that kicked his *** today, and he’s piloting a bottom dwelling ship right now. He’s also playing with one hand tied behind his back with this scheme. Patience is a virtue. Mitch still should get the benefit of that because of where he is in his career. Fox, on the other hand... Well, like I said earlier, I wasn't talking about replacing Trubisky now, just questioning whether he was inserted too soon. What I bolded there is truly my main concern. Loggains seems to be getting farther and farther out of his league, and I really don't know why, as I thought he was doing fine early on, even at the start, in spite of Glennon turning into one of the Keystone Cops. But I certainly have patience. I totally defended the Trubisky pick when it was made, and have really seen nothing to make me doubt that position. He's obviously not going to be a bust. In NFL history, of QBS who went wrong, some guys clearly shouldn't have been drafted as high as they were (or maybe even close), while others drafted high had lots of talent but were screwed up by bad coaching, or organizations. I'm merely doing a little handwringing about that second scenario unfolding here, is all. 31 minutes ago, topwop1 said: From last game he certainly didn't improve but again let's put things into perspective a little. He was on the road against the best team in the NFL with not a lot of help. I thought he played a pretty good game against the Lions the week prior and he certainly showed some moxie in leading his team back for a chance at a game tying fg. The so-called intangibles are really where it's at when it comes to a quality QB. You do have a point there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSLCF04 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 It would have been nice to see some sort of pulse from the Bears today. But this was the best and hotest team in the league at this moment. Here's to firing Fox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: He had his moments, for sure. He even did today, really. But yeah...he's getting more inaccurate, more tentative, and he's making worse decisions. That isn't growth. It's also not the end of the world, just legitimate cause for concern. See I think he’ll be better in 2018 for having these experiences now. These kinds of games were probably always going to happen to him. I’d rather he has them and gets them (hopefully) our of the way in what is a lost season versus next year when after adding players around him we hope to actually compete for something. The one knock on MT coming out of the draft was lack of experience. He was never going to bridge that without actually playing. Had he sat all of this year too then next year would have probably looked a lot like what we are seeing now on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 I have to agree with AZ. There will be bumps in the road for all QBs, and lumps are going to be taken no matter what. If he can adapt to THIS lack of talent and do so with THIS little help when coaching, then when a real offensive mind and real talent surrounds him he will be much better off. A mind like Lafleuer, Reich, or McDaniels would put him in better situations and aren't going to want to trust Bellamy with 30+ snaps as a WR. He also is learning to scan the field quickly out of necessity, as we don't have Brown, Fitz, Jones, etc to rely on in major situations. Cutler learned to lean heavily on Marshall, Stafford learned to lean heavily on Megatron, etc. It is a hard habit to break, hopefully Trubisky learns to spread the ball around and later will have the weapons he can trust to throw open and to see the mismatches. It isn't a perfect plan though of course. The risk is that he can get gunshy due to not trusting his teammates, start holding on to the ball too long (or his internal clock going too fast) or trying to wait until they are open to throw. Thankfully the OL isn't terrible so we aren't dealing with a David Carr-like situation that could ruin him. Wentz had a much better staff and cast around hm last year and had some really bad games. Goff had a horrible season and is a shoe-in for any award for Most Improved or Rebound Player of the Year. This season sucks, but let's not look at is as a damning instance for Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 42 minutes ago, Sugashane said: It isn't a perfect plan though of course. The risk is that he can get gunshy due to not trusting his teammates, start holding on to the ball too long (or his internal clock going too fast) or trying to wait until they are open to throw. Thankfully the OL isn't terrible so we aren't dealing with a David Carr-like situation that could ruin him. Wentz had a much better staff and cast around hm last year and had some really bad games. Goff had a horrible season and is a shoe-in for any award for Most Improved or Rebound Player of the Year. This season sucks, but let's not look at is as a damning instance for Trubisky. I simply don't think we're at a point--especially considering the evidence of actual games--that the risk you speak of is gone. Hopefully Fox is fired tomorrow, and that speeds things along. The good thing about your Goff comparison is that at this point I see almost no chance Trubisky has a worse rookie season than Goff had. Trubisky seems to have a higher "football I.Q." than Goff did coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerthat Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Monday morning thoughts ~ Can we please start taking RT as a serious need for this team. Massie was brutal. his best play of the game was recovering the fumble that the guy he was blocking caused. Santos the kick offs were deep into the end zone has a strong leg. the 54 yarder is a hard kick. he had a leg I will be forgiving for that one. the other kick was fine. getting mentally prepared for the bears to lose to the 49ers at home sunday disappointed that the colts and the giants both lost yesterday nothing gained in draft order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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