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2023 Roster - some thoughts


KC_Guy

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3 hours ago, RedGold said:

Why are we spending a premium pick on a position we’re already 3 deep at?  

If that is directed at the TE position, we need Kelce's successor and Gray is a TE2. This is the first draft in a while with both quality and depth.

 

1 hour ago, TedLavie said:

I think there's 0 chance we pay MVS 11mil next year. Honestly we're in a prime position to get those 1 year deal from veteran wideouts who want to bet on themselves. I think we'll keep doing that for WR #2s - which realistically the third option in our offense where Kelce is the #1 guy. If we're comfortable with his health status, someone like DJ Chark could be added for half that salary.

The big question imho is what Jakuvious said - are we comfortable enough to have Sky Moore start in Juju place. If we need to pay Juju, that's even less money we can allocate to other wideouts. And I'd rather spend money on tackles than on MVS.

I expect MVS to play one more season in Red and Gold. The question is who they can get to suppliment MVS and KT? Skyy will get a much bigger piece but how big. Will we bring Watson back to play glue guy again? Robinson and Pringle filled that slot for two years before, so we know it's an easy fill. That also means that re-signing Watson should be easy. 

To answer the question, are we comfortable having Skyy taking JuJu's role? Not really but we don't need to be. It works as a fallback position. I'll go with Mayan and get multiple day #3 options. We have bigger needs for the first two days.

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12 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

If that is directed at the TE position, we need Kelce's successor and Gray is a TE2. This is the first draft in a while with both quality and depth.

 

So if there is quality and depth,   why in the world would we spend a 1st.. or even trade up in the 1st.   That would be a total waste of resources.  

 

We've been talking about Kelce's successor for 4 years,   and there is still no signs of slowing down.    I have no issues taking an upside guy in the mid/late rounds,  cuz as you said it's a deep class..    but drafting a TE early with Kelce / Gray / Fortson is just dumb imo.       I'll go as far as to say TE isn't a need in the slightest with those 3,    but if one slides in the mid/late rounds   sure take that upside.    But even having 4 TE's on the 53 man is not really ideal.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, RedGold said:

So if there is quality and depth,   why in the world would we spend a 1st.. or even trade up in the 1st.   That would be a total waste of resources.  

This is mystifying. Why would you not be proactive on something so important. I would trade up for another Tony Gonzalez. I would love to see TG play with JK for a couple of years.

 

11 minutes ago, RedGold said:

We've been talking about Kelce's successor for 4 years,   and there is still no signs of slowing down.    I have no issues taking an upside guy in the mid/late rounds,  cuz as you said it's a deep class..    but drafting a TE early with Kelce / Gray / Fortson is just dumb imo.       I'll go as far as to say TE isn't a need in the slightest with those 3,    but if one slides in the mid/late rounds   sure take that upside.    But even having 4 TE's on the 53 man is not really ideal.

The fact that Kelce is going at an elite level after comparable people have retired simply means that it has not bitten us in the south side. We are years closer to a serious hole.

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33 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

This is mystifying. Why would you not be proactive on something so important. I would trade up for another Tony Gonzalez. I would love to see TG play with JK for a couple of years.

 

The fact that Kelce is going at an elite level after comparable people have retired simply means that it has not bitten us in the south side. We are years closer to a serious hole.

Soo...   help me understand.   Last year you argued using a 1st round pick on a T,  because they wouldn't be starting.     But now you want to use a 1st round pick,  or even trade up to get someone we have 3 quality players at.   

Like I said,    if someone falls in the mid/late rounds.  Sure take that upside.   But acting like it's a huge need is crazy.   Most of the good TE's are found in the middle to late rounds anyways. 

Edited by RedGold
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2 minutes ago, RedGold said:

Soo...   help me understand.   Last year you argued using a 1st round pick on a T,  because they wouldn't be starting.     But now you want to use a 1st round pick,  or even trade up to get someone we have 3 quality players at.   

Like I said,    if someone falls in the mid/late rounds.  Sure take that upside.   But acting like it's a huge need is crazy.   Most of the good TE's are found in the middle to late rounds anyways. 

The distinction is one of talent tiers. If there were a chance to trade up for an elite OT I would have said go for it. When we had the chance to do the comparable thing for a CB, we pulled the trigger. Enter Trent McDuffie. Obviously we lost a starting CB, but even with everyone back it would have been the right move. Talent will out. 

In this draft we have a Trent McDuffie level TE in Mayer. Even if we did not have a looming retirement at the position we should make the move if it is possible. I used the comparison to Tony Gonzalez because he is the only player of similar athleticism in some time. Stylistically, they are very different but I foresee limilar impact. Do it now so that we don't have to scramble later, like we did at WR last spring.

Factoid: There is only one WR who was with the team in 2021 who is currently under contract--Cornell Powell.

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Who can the Chiefs sign at WR? 

It's worth remembering that Kadarius Toney was not a FA signing. An article has a some names for low rent signings.
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/2/22/23608168/chiefs-offseason-2023-reloading-wide-receiver

  • Jarvis Landry signed a one-year, $3 million deal with the New Orleans Saints last season, but never quite found his footing there. He is on the wrong side of 30 — and coming off an ankle injury.
  • Parris Campbell is just 25 years old. He’s coming off his first fully-healthy season with the Indianapolis Colts. In 2022, he had 693 yards (and three touchdowns) in one of the league’s worst offenses. Spotrac lists his yearly market value at $2.5 million.
  • Darius Slayton is another budget player with some possible upside. Spotrac lists his yearly value as $3.5 million. Slayton has stayed relatively healthy while amassing over 700 yards in three out of his four seasons with the New York Giants.

 

Edited by onejayhawk
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43 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

The distinction is one of talent tiers. If there were a chance to trade up for an elite OT I would have said go for it. When we had the chance to do the comparable thing for a CB, we pulled the trigger. Enter Trent McDuffie. Obviously we lost a starting CB, but even with everyone back it would have been the right move. Talent will out. 

In this draft we have a Trent McDuffie level TE in Mayer. Even if we did not have a looming retirement at the position we should make the move if it is possible. I used the comparison to Tony Gonzalez because he is the only player of similar athleticism in some time. Stylistically, they are very different but I foresee limilar impact. Do it now so that we don't have to scramble later, like we did at WR last spring.

Factoid: There is only one WR who was with the team in 2021 who is currently under contract--Cornell Powell.

I'm not arguing planning for the future.   It was just condescending as in the past,  you have said 1st Round picks should start.   and now you want to trade up/take one in the 1st that may start the year 4th string, or even start for 2/3 years.   

We may have an issue in 2/3 years.    But as of right now,   our TE room is one the strongest in the league, if not the strongest.    If one falls into the middle/late rounds with some intriguing skills,  sure take him and see if he develops.    But trading up for a TE in the 1st,  when we have Kelce and two others who have shown well.   Is wild

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22 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

We may have a chance to grab Mayer with our 1st. pick. He's now regularly showing up on my PFN scans. But do we do it?

It depends on who we sign or re-sign as veterans. If they bring back OB Jr, Wylie, and Clark, which appears to be the plan, the I would take Mayer even if we have to move up several places.  

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4 minutes ago, RedGold said:

I'm not arguing planning for the future.   It was just condescending as in the past,  you have said 1st Round picks should start.   and now you want to trade up/take one in the 1st that may start the year 4th string, or even start for 2/3 years.   

We may have an issue in 2/3 years.    But as of right now,   our TE room is one the strongest in the league, if not the strongest.    If one falls into the middle/late rounds with some intriguing skills,  sure take him and see if he develops.   But trading up for a TE in the 1st,  when we have Kelce and two others who have shown well.   Is wild

Not exactly. I have said that only 1st round picks can be expected to start right away.

There is a premium value placed on the plug-and-play aspect. You may get lucky with a later round but it's not the norm. Some players, particularly late in the 1st round, are drafted for their high upside. They often need a year or at least a few months to work up to starting role.

Mayer should be able to step into a role right away. If it were a normal team, he would be expected to  take the lead role right away. Perhaps more to the point, he should be able to help more next season than any WR likely to be available at that point. 

 

 

 

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Know that most think the Chiefs are set at CB but this draft is pretty strong at that position.

And while they did do well later on they still got beat up by number one receivers. Brown/Smith had good games and would imagine if the Bengals offensive line wasn't bad in the playoff game Chase/Higgins could have done even more damage. 

Maybe take one high? Know they have other pressing needs but just a thought. 

Also agree with the TE thing if there's a potential generational player at that position and pick you go for it but that's just personally my mindset is that you stack up on elite players if they are available.

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It’s poor value,  that’s all I’ll say.     Heck if we drafted Kelce’s replacement 4 years ago like everyone wanted,   He’d be on a new team this year.  We haven’t even reached the couple years Kelce wins solely on his knowledge,  I still say Kelce has 3 years left, at Min, of good production.    He takes care of his body,  and the dude doesn’t take hard/extra hits.   He goes down on his own.  

I don’t go out and purchase a new HVAC unit for above market value,  just because it’s old and expected to break.    I plan and make minor adjustments to extend the life and save to prepare.   If a good deal comes along, I may even splurge to get the new one, but I’m not paying over unless I know it’s broke.  
 

I went off the rails for a bit,  but it’s just poor value for something we just “expect” to happen.    If talent falls to us,  sure go for it…  but it’s definitely not something we need to panic and give up  Extra picks for. Or even a high pick. 

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9 hours ago, RedGold said:

but drafting a TE early with Kelce / Gray / Fortson is just dumb imo.      

I used to think so too. But lets face it. This Chiefs offense runs thru PM and Kelce. Gray and Fortson certainly aren't "Kelce"

Drafting Mayer now gives us insurance and gives Mayer time to learn under Kelce's tutelage.

Quote

Heck if we drafted Kelce’s replacement 4 years ago like everyone wanted,

4 yrs ago Kelce was only 29. Father time creeps up surely and at times, unexpectedly. If i'm in the AFC i'd be depressed if the Chiefs drafted the best TE in the draft.

It's like telling Marla Hooch "ok Marla turn around and bat left handed" and watching the boys turn around dejectedly moaning "ohhhhhh".

Edited by mayanfootball
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