Raiders to release QB Derek Carr

[sammymvpknight]

28 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Think most would argue that Dak and Kirk are closer to top 10 than average. Carr is a tier below both so average is probably fair for him. Can he perform at that fringe top ten level like Cousins and Dak, maybe in the right spot. SF seems like a good landing spot if they aren’t sold on any QB. 

Kirk Cousins looked a heck of a lot like Carr before getting the best WR in football. I think that they are all remarkably similar. After the top 9 or so there is a tier break with a ton (15 or so) QBs that can be argued for. That’s why the statement of being average at best is similar. The average QBs look awfully similar to Carr

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

1. Saints

2. Panthers








 

3. Jets

fify

Feels like it's the two NFC South teams as the heavy favorites here.

[Nabbs4u]

I do find it funny that the Raiders FO allowed Carr to discuss contracts with the Saints in hopes of actually getting draft pick compensation? As if Carr or NO would want to send assets back to LV. 👌

They probably spent the entire visit breaking down what a new contract would look like, with similar money maybe even more technically with a new signing bonus if he signed with them post cut.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Nabbs4u

[tyler735]

19 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

fify

Feels like it's the two NFC South teams as the heavy favorites here.

Will make for an interesting choice. I think the Saints have a clear advantage in terms of talent on offense (better OL, Kamara, and Olave (in theory Michael Thomas), but I'd struggle to pick them if I was Derek Carr after seeing how clueless our coaching staff was on offense last season. I feel like the Panther hold a clear advantage with their offensive coaching staff.

[BobbyPhil1781]

2 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. He good more times than he's not albeit he did regress this year. I would like to think he'd get better w/ another year in the same offense but it's moot to discuss it at this point.

I will concede this after thinking about it:

After this season, Carr looks far more average than he did before especially if you're going to do a ranking system. Prior to the season starting Lawrence was still unproven as was Hurts and some others. Carr definitely regressed this season but not sure how much of that was due to the first year in McD's offense or how much was due to him. Prior to this season, he's really been an average, at worst, QB but never great on a consistent basis. A few games here and there but that's about it.

He's still certainly better than "average at best"

[vikingsrule]

2 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

Kirk Cousins looked a heck of a lot like Carr before getting the best WR in football. I think that they are all remarkably similar. After the top 9 or so there is a tier break with a ton (15 or so) QBs that can be argued for. That’s why the statement of being average at best is similar. The average QBs look awfully similar to Carr

Before Jefferson, the Vikes had Diggs so the drop off wasn’t that significant in terms of WR and Thielen was better back then. I get your point but it’s also known that the offense under Zimmer routinely held the offense back with the desire to run the ball in the most predicable situations. Think Cousins emerging had more to do with the offense opening up to make up for the poor defense of the past three years. Just not sure id put Carr in the same tier as Cousins, think there’s a gap between fringe top 10 and fringe average. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by vikingsrule

[Leoric]

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2017/05/30/derek-carr-vs-philip-rivers/amp/

 

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/derek-carr-ties-for-3rd-in-mvp-voting

 

Derek Carr has the tools to start and help a team win in this league and the Raiders will not be a better football team without him. I tried to find the forum posts from 2016 when Carr was one of the hottest names in this forum. What’s changed since then? The Raiders hired dinosaur Jon Gruden and Megalomaniac Josh McDaniels. I can’t wait to see who starts for LV in week 4 after Jimmy G is lost for the season. 

 

 

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, Leoric said:

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2017/05/30/derek-carr-vs-philip-rivers/amp/

 

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/derek-carr-ties-for-3rd-in-mvp-voting

 

Derek Carr has the tools to start and help a team win in this league and the Raiders will not be a better football team without him. I tried to find the forum posts from 2016 when Carr was one of the hottest names in this forum. What’s changed since then? The Raiders hired dinosaur Jon Gruden and Megalomaniac Josh McDaniels. I can’t wait to see who starts for LV in week 4 after Jimmy G is lost for the season. 

 

 

Anyone can have a good season. Even Dalton had a MVP caliber year one time. Matt Ryan. Etc. Carr’s 2016 was pretty overrated when you actually look at it. It was efficient, but far from anything special. Not to mention one of the best pass protections in the history of the sport. 

[Darbsk]

22 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I will concede this after thinking about it:

After this season, Carr looks far more average than he did before especially if you're going to do a ranking system. Prior to the season starting Lawrence was still unproven as was Hurts and some others. Carr definitely regressed this season but not sure how much of that was due to the first year in McD's offense or how much was due to him. Prior to this season, he's really been an average, at worst, QB but never great on a consistent basis. A few games here and there but that's about it.

He's still certainly better than "average at best"

To be fair in early 2021 before we launched into our crazy self destruction phase he looked like he may be in MVP discussions when he was hitting Ruggs with bombs regularly. So, for me, when people say ‘at best’ I think he’s capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level and being in the conversation but at worst a very average QB prone to the odd brain fade and frustrating, very similar to Matthew Stafford in my book. The key is good coaching and maximising his positives. Average at best, to me implies that his peak is average when it is clearly and demonstrably so much more, albeit with periods of head scratching 😄

[ronjon1990]

24 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

To be fair in early 2021 before we launched into our crazy self destruction phase he looked like he may be in MVP discussions when he was hitting Ruggs with bombs regularly. So, for me, when people say ‘at best’ I think he’s capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level and being in the conversation but at worst a very average QB prone to the odd brain fade and frustrating, very similar to Matthew Stafford in my book. The key is good coaching and maximising his positives. Average at best, to me implies that his peak is average when it is clearly and demonstrably so much more, albeit with periods of head scratching 😄

Pretty spot on for what most Carr fans would say. 

His ceiling is pretty high, arguably MVP contention high. And he's shown glimpses of it enough to warrant a look outside of chaos and inconsistency in schemes (though I can concede that his long term investment outlook is lower due to age at this point as he wouldn't hit a potential full stride until probably late 2023 or even 2024). 

The problem is, like someone said about Carson Palmer a few days back, his floor is in that "painfully average with a smattering of really bad" tier. 

It's a strange situation, as you don't usually see someone with the extremes in peaks and valleys like that on a routine basis. It's one thing when a guy has a great one-off year (think Foles in 2017; Matt Cassell in 2010) or has a few consistently good years before falling totally off the map (Cam Newton; Matt Ryan) or even a few shaky seasons before finding footing and finishing off at a relatively high level (Alex Smith; Ryan Tannehill?). It's another when it's nearly every year, and often wildly varying from game to game, even half to half. 

You're right though, a lot of people seem to totally forget that up through the Philadelphia game in 2021 (7 games) he was talked about as a legit MVP contender and was playing like one. Then the wheels on everything fell off. It's not like he just had an ok game here and an ok game there, he was playing exceptionally good ball consistently. So it's not totally impossible. 

[Darbsk]

12 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Anyone can have a good season. Even Dalton had a MVP caliber year one time. Matt Ryan. Etc. Carr’s 2016 was pretty overrated when you actually look at it. It was efficient, but far from anything special. Not to mention one of the best pass protections in the history of the sport. 

Nah, I think you’re dramatically underselling that year. Though I do agree a lot of guys (not anyone but a number) can have a great year.

Not just Carr, as Mack and Irvin were great too and we were just getting the big plays at the right time, but for Carr that leg break really was a turning point in his career, we were riding the crest of a wave and confidence was an all time high.
It’s obviously all history now and nothing changes that but one wonders how his career could have looked had he not gotten injured, I think we caught lighting in a bottle that year are would have been a very, very dangerous playoff team.

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

To be fair in early 2021 before we launched into our crazy self destruction phase he looked like he may be in MVP discussions when he was hitting Ruggs with bombs regularly. So, for me, when people say ‘at best’ I think he’s capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level and being in the conversation but at worst a very average QB prone to the odd brain fade and frustrating, very similar to Matthew Stafford in my book. The key is good coaching and maximising his positives. Average at best, to me implies that his peak is average when it is clearly and demonstrably so much more, albeit with periods of head scratching 😄

This is certainly a fair assessment and you're absolutely correct IMO. People, myself included, definitely forget about early 2021 where he was looking like a different player. Those head scratching moments would cause wounds if you were too aggressive lol. Definitely too many of those at inopportune times.

[Soko]

If they’re going to roll with Stidham/a rookie anyway, I’d have had a ton of respect for the Raiders if they called Carr’s bluff and forced him to stay on the sideline for 2023.

[NYRaider]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:31 AM, ronjon1990 said:

Pretty spot on for what most Carr fans would say. 

His ceiling is pretty high, arguably MVP contention high. And he's shown glimpses of it enough to warrant a look outside of chaos and inconsistency in schemes (though I can concede that his long term investment outlook is lower due to age at this point as he wouldn't hit a potential full stride until probably late 2023 or even 2024). 

Meh. That's like saying Carson Wentz has an MVP contention level ceiling because he played at an MVP level in 2017, it has been years since Carr played that well. Carr's inability to finish drives with TD's will always limit him and the offense that he is in. 

[Roninho]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:05 PM, Darbsk said:

To be fair in early 2021 before we launched into our crazy self destruction phase he looked like he may be in MVP discussions when he was hitting Ruggs with bombs regularly. So, for me, when people say ‘at best’ I think he’s capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level and being in the conversation but at worst a very average QB prone to the odd brain fade and frustrating, very similar to Matthew Stafford in my book. The key is good coaching and maximising his positives. Average at best, to me implies that his peak is average when it is clearly and demonstrably so much more, albeit with periods of head scratching 😄

To me he is very similar to Carson Palmer (when he was in his early 30s).