The 2023 Offseason Thread

[DeSean Jackson]

2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

What does Jordan Davis do, besides stop the run?

If you can't rush the passer, you aren't worth a 1st, even if you are the best run defending DT in the NFL.

Linval Joseph in his prime isn't worth the 13th overall pick, and neither was Jordan Davis, because neither can rush the passer. 

Would you draft the best run defending lb in round 1 if he sucked in coverage?

Would you draft a DE in round 1 that projects to 2 or 3 sacks a year, but is really good vs the run?

You wouldn't, but for some reason it’s worth the 13th overall pick to take a DT that can't rush the passer? A guy you actually have to take off the field on 3rd and long is worth pick 13? Ok.

Joseph isn’t even a comparison. Jordan Davis is 6ft 6 350 pounds 82 inch wingspan and runs a 4.7. Gannon didnt use him as much after the injury, but before it he was playing great. He will show out this year when he’s actually allowed to rush the passer. He’s 1 of 1 

[Jeezla]

13 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

These posts of yours scream much more than sour. What the dude do to you?

Robbed us of getting a better player that we could have had on a cheap deal for 4 years. The only "studs" we have on the cheap are DeVonta and Landon. All of our great players already being on their 2nd contracts isn't going to be sustainable. We needed to nail last years pick for the sake of maintaining our NFCE dominance in the future, and we didn't. Instead we got a good run defender in a passing league where the importance of getting sacks far outweighs defending the run, and literally the only evidence pointing to him being anything more than that is combine testing #'s.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Jeezla]

15 minutes ago, DeSean Jackson said:

Joseph isn’t even a comparison. Jordan Davis is 6ft 6 350 pounds 82 inch wingspan and runs a 4.7. Gannon didnt use him as much after the injury, but before it he was playing great. He will show out this year when he’s actually allowed to rush the passer. He’s 1 of 1 

It doesn't matter if Jordan Davis runs 4.2 and sets the agility drill and long jump records, regardless of position. Rush the passer is not in his skillset. You guys are blinded by a meaningless (outside of getting drafted way higher than he should have) combine performance. Jordan Davis is also not an alpha. Doesn't have a killer instinct.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Daimonas]

16 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

It doesn't matter if Jordan Davis runs 4.2 and sets the agility drill and long jump records, regardless of position. Rush the passer is not in his skillset. You guys are blinded by a meaningless (outside of getting drafted way higher than he should have) combine performance. Jordan Davis is also not an alpha. Doesn't have a killer instinct.

All I needed to see to know that you're spouting a ton of nonsense lmao.

[Jeezla]

7 minutes ago, Daimonas said:

All I needed to see to know that you're spouting a ton of nonsense lmao.

All i needed to see was your name. Jordan Davis is not an Alpha. If Jordan Davis goes to prison, he'll be the most athletic prison B in the yard. Kid has zero Deebo in him and probably plays magic the gathering.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Nabbs4u]

42 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

It's hilarious that you say mitching and complaining about his rookie year is absurd, yet your reasoning for why Jordan Davis will be fine is "He Big! And he run good!". Also funny you assume a guy with obvious conditioning issues won't be rotating heavily.

I've learned over my many years on this site not to take you serious when talking about Rookies. 

You love to put labels on every Rookie we draft and place them in a box they can't possibly get out of. Look no further then the Dead Horse you chose from the 2020 draft and beat to death until this season.

When you and numerous others on this site had no choice but to admit, I was dead wrong. 

[Jeezla]

34 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

I've learned over my many years on this site not to take you serious when talking about Rookies. 

You love to put labels on every Rookie we draft and place them in a box they can't possibly get out of. Look no further then the Dead Horse you chose from the 2020 draft and beat to death until this season.

When you and numerous others on this site had no choice but to admit, I was dead wrong. 

I love to put labels on them before we even draft them, and then not change those labels just because they wear the helmet I like.

You've already labeled people in this draft class. Everyone does it.

If I was dead wrong, how am I still alive? I said Reagor sucked after year 1, and I was right.

Saying I put people in boxes they can't get out of, then 2 sentences later admitting Hurts got out of my box kinda ruins the argument.

"Look no further than that one time you were wrong about Jalen Hurts!"
Makes sense.
Ignore the times I was right about Nate Allen, Danny Watkins, Dillard, Agholor, JJAW, Reagor, Wagner over Kendricks by a mile, Goedert being a good pick, DeVonta's size not being a problem, Gainwell, saying Quez would actually be as good as Reagor right after we drafted him (and better than Hightower), etc, etc, because I was wrong about Jalen Hurts. And I also thought Landon DIckerson would tear another ACL by now. I was "dead wrong" twice in 10+ years about our own draft prospects. You got me. Now all of my rookie/draft opinions are crap.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Nabbs4u]

2 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

You've already labeled people in this draft class. Everyone does it.

If I was dead wrong, how am I still alive?

What Rookie did I say is a bust from the past 3 years drafts,  had no chance of getting better? I'll wait?

Unlike you, I tend to give players time to prove it one way or another. Not expect All Pro year one or you suck!

Just curious who we should of taken from picks 14 thru 32 instead? Just know when you list a Rookie DB like McDuffie, Hamilton, Hill and Cine we don't sign/trade for JB or CGJ nor make the SB.

When you undoubtedly pick Jermain Johnson, just know he too wouldn't of produced to your ridiculous standards sitting and playing behind Sweet, Reddick and BG. 

Howie has a long history of attempting to draft replacements. Some work some don't but it takes more then 1 season to find out.

Davis-Cox

Jurgens-Kelce

Dean-Edwards 

Smitty-Reagor

Dickerson-Brooks

Dillard-Peters

Goedert-Ertz

Barnett-Graham

[Kiltman]

I think it really is a wait and see.

He played fine for a rookie pre injury and them adding the 2012 NFC pro bowl DL.

Like with any dude that size, it’ll really depend on how much he wants to do it. And he’ll be worth more in certain schemes.

Even if his pass rush is so so, moving and taking up two blockers can make certain defenses and LBs run great. Look at the second life Ngata gave Ray Lewis.

I hope Dean being here can help keep him locked in as all the predraft stuff said about Dean. 
 

Kid just turned 23, not ready to write in stone what he’ll be or is. Hopefully he’ll be one of many that the new DC can get more out of.

 

[Jeezla]

28 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

What Rookie did I say is a bust from the past 3 years drafts,  had no chance of getting better? I'll wait?

I'm saying you've already labeled some of the prospects who are about to be drafted, and you won't change your opinion of them until they prove otherwise.

 

28 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Unlike you, I tend to give players time to prove it one way or another. Not expect All Pro year one or you suck!

Unlike you I live in reality, and understand a large amount of players are going to bust. In fact, more players will bust than hit, and it shouldn't take 3 or 4 years to figure out which. Jalen Hurts is a rare outlier, at a position that's a lot harder to scout than DT or WR.

 

28 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Just curious who we should of taken from picks 14 thru 32 instead? Just know when you list a Rookie DB like McDuffie, Hamilton, Hill and Cine we don't sign/trade for JB or CGJ nor make the SB.

That's crazy that you can predict alternate futures, but tell me it's wrong to predict busts.
We would have definitely missed the super bowl and not signed JB if we drafted Kaair Elam? Was our schedule going to change if we drafted Elam? The NFL would have said "shoot, the Eagles drafted a CB. Let's make them play tougher teams" ?
Howie would have said Bradberry was too expensive or CB depth ain't important?
Drafting a CB would make Howie not trade for a Safety? Uh, ok. Sure.

 

28 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

When you undoubtedly pick Jermain Johnson, just know he too wouldn't of produced to your ridiculous standards sitting and playing behind Sweet, Reddick and BG. 

Again, pretty wild that you can predict what Jermaine Johnson would have done in a totally different scheme, but it's foolish of me to predict what Jordan Davis will do. It almost sounds like you've labeled Jermaine Johnson after saying you don't do that. Wild.

I would have traded down and taken Pitre (my man crush on him was no secret), so yes, no CGJ, but probably still get Bradberry.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jeezla

[Jeezla]

12 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I think it really is a wait and see.

He played fine for a rookie pre injury and them adding the 2012 NFC pro bowl DL.

Like with any dude that size, it’ll really depend on how much he wants to do it. And he’ll be worth more in certain schemes.

Even if his pass rush is so so, moving and taking up two blockers can make certain defenses and LBs run great. Look at the second life Ngata gave Ray Lewis.

I hope Dean being here can help keep him locked in as all the predraft stuff said about Dean. 
 

Kid just turned 23, not ready to write in stone what he’ll be or is. Hopefully he’ll be one of many that the new DC can get more out of.

 

That's fine and reasonable, but at the same time, if your pre-draft opinion of Jordan Davis was "this dude can't rush the passer, and that's not worth the 13th overall pick"- he hasn't exactly done anything to change that opinion.

[Danger]

12 hours ago, Jeezla said:

He over-drafted Jordan Davis by about 20 picks

Not really

[Danger]

10 hours ago, Jeezla said:

I was sour on him before we drafted him, don't see any reason to change me pre-draft tune as of yet.

To Jeezla's credit, he is correct here. But he's just using an underwhelming rookie season to prematurely confirm his bias.

[Kiltman]

7 hours ago, Jeezla said:

That's fine and reasonable, but at the same time, if your pre-draft opinion of Jordan Davis was "this dude can't rush the passer, and that's not worth the 13th overall pick"- he hasn't exactly done anything to change that opinion.

Totally fair

I think athletically he can do it. It’s just will he keep his weight down and will he develop his move set. The optimistic part of me hopes he was able to learn from the 4 pro bowl+ guys ahead of him this year.

There is a very real chance he stays a boulder clogging up the middle, and that’s it. How good or bad that is will depend on the scheme. There’s tangential effects like a pass rushing DT gives with helping the FBs. If it allows a small instinct based LBs like Nakobe to thrive, as well as other guys to come free or only have one guy to beat…there is value there.

I’ll admit bias as a former 0-tech NT ha.

[Kiltman]

Just saw this and thought it was worth sharing. Doesn’t change anything, but some insight hopefully to JD learning some stuff and having a big year two.