mdonnelly21 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Who is higher on your All Time List? Dan Marino or John Elway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) Elway. He had some major stinkers in the SB, but at least he got there. Marino is the ultimate choke artist; don't care what BS aDvAnCeD sTaTs say. Edited February 19, 2023 by biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Marino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 If you were to rank Marino and Elway's best seasons, Marino would have 9 out of the top 10 best seasons. Elway's 1993 season is really his only great season (by ranking). 1993: 1 DYAR, 4 DVOA Whereas Marino was at the top of the league for many seasons: 1984: 1 DVOA, 1 DYAR 1985: 1 DYAR, 2 DVOA 1986: 1 DYAR, 2 DVOA 1987: 2 DVOA, 2 DYAR 1988: 1 DYAR, 3 DVOA 1990: 2 DYAR, 5 DVOA 1992: 2 DYAR, 4 DVOA 1994: 2 DYAR, 5 DVOA 1996: 1 DVOA, 3 DYAR 1997: 1 DYAR, 4 DVOA Marino was either 1st or 2nd in the league in either per play efficiency or total value 10 times, while Elway was 1 time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Marino, and I don't think it's particularly close either. Marino was the best pure passer of all-time until Rodgers and Mahomes came along. Marino has around 5 seasons that would be considered Elway's best, and has a 3 year run with all seasons being MVP caliber, and the numbers would still be Pro Bowl (if not All-Pro) level today. For all of Elway's talent, he underachieved and underperformed until the last 5 or so years of his career, and didn't win until they put a very solid team around him (including HoFers TD, Sharpe, Atwater, and HoVG Rod Smith). The Dolphins NEVER did the same for Marino. Marino never had a running game, had good but not great WRs, and the defense was abhorrent for at least 66% of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdonnelly21 Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 10 hours ago, HerbertGOAT said: Marino, and I don't think it's particularly close either. Marino was the best pure passer of all-time until Rodgers and Mahomes came along. Marino has around 5 seasons that would be considered Elway's best, and has a 3 year run with all seasons being MVP caliber, and the numbers would still be Pro Bowl (if not All-Pro) level today. For all of Elway's talent, he underachieved and underperformed until the last 5 or so years of his career, and didn't win until they put a very solid team around him (including HoFers TD, Sharpe, Atwater, and HoVG Rod Smith). The Dolphins NEVER did the same for Marino. Marino never had a running game, had good but not great WRs, and the defense was abhorrent for at least 66% of his career. And who do you think is a better pure passer Peak Rodgers or current Mahomes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) The whole "Marino never had a team!!!" is the biggest myth in the history of the game; it has been debunked numerous times. Once games started to matter, Marino ALWAYS wilted. Elway carried weaker teams to the SB while Marino went to one lousy SB when the AFC was a joke. Edited February 18, 2023 by biggie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Dan Marino he's in the conversation for one of the greatest releases combined with arm strength and accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 One of these guys is the most overrated QB of all time. The other is somehow still underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 13 hours ago, mdonnelly21 said: And who do you think is a better pure passer Peak Rodgers or current Mahomes? That's tough. I think Mahomes has more arm talent, and Rodgers was a better pure passer (similar to how Elway has more arm talent but Marino is a better pure passer) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbertGOAT Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 hours ago, biggie. said: The whole "Marino never had a team!!!" is the biggest myth in the history of the game; it has been debunked numerous times. Once games started to matter, Marino ALWAYS wilted. Elway carried weaker teams to the SB while Marino went to one lousy SB when the AFC was a joke. Marino played 17 seasons. of those 17 seasons, 10 of them were with a below average scoring defense (with 4 being absolute sewer trash). 5 of his defenses were top 10 in scoring. Elway played 16 seasons. Of those 16 seasons, 6 of them were with a below average scoring defense (with 2 being pretty bad). 9 OF HIS DEFENSES WERE IN THE TOP 10. Of the 10 times Elway made the postseason, he made it without a top 10 scoring defense ONCE. Of the 9 times that Marino made the postseason, he made it without a top 10 scoring defense 4 times. Even on Elway's bad teams, he had much more support from the defensive side of the ball. The AFC was still a joke when Elway went to his 3 SBs in the 80s. And when Elway won in the 90's, he had the luxury of a ridiculous running game and an elite HOF TE, neither of which Marino ever had. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, HerbertGOAT said: Marino played 17 seasons. of those 17 seasons, 10 of them were with a below average scoring defense (with 4 being absolute sewer trash). 5 of his defenses were top 10 in scoring. Elway played 16 seasons. Of those 16 seasons, 6 of them were with a below average scoring defense (with 2 being pretty bad). 9 OF HIS DEFENSES WERE IN THE TOP 10. Of the 10 times Elway made the postseason, he made it without a top 10 scoring defense ONCE. Of the 9 times that Marino made the postseason, he made it without a top 10 scoring defense 4 times. Even on Elway's bad teams, he had much more support from the defensive side of the ball. The AFC was still a joke when Elway went to his 3 SBs in the 80s. And when Elway won in the 90's, he had the luxury of a ridiculous running game and an elite HOF TE, neither of which Marino ever had. Myth: Dan Marino had no defense. Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league's No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That's a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino's playing days. Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense. In Marino's record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league's No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game. There's no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that's the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, biggie. said: Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense. Maybe this should be an indicator to you that being no. 1 in scoring defense isn't such a valuable achievement. Or are you implying that the Steel Curtain D was overrated? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, biggie. said: Myth: Dan Marino had no defense. Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league's No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That's a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino's playing days. Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense. In Marino's record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league's No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game. There's no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that's the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls. MIA defensive rankings by year (DVOA - much more accurate than scoring D): 1983: 16 1984: 21 1985: 19 1986: 27 1987: 28 1988: 28 1989: 28 1990: 10 1991: 28 1992: 14 1993: 22 1994: 12 1995: 23 1996: 23 1997: 28 1998: 1 (!) 1999: 8 It certainly was a cruel twist of fate that Marino's last great year as a passer (1997) was followed by the one year the Dolphins D was elite. Marino fell off pretty substantially his final two seasons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelersfan43 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 If you look at the rushing yards on offense and defense for the Dolphins in most of the playoffs loss with Marino,it was crazy the huge difference.I don't think Joe Montana would been much better in this condition Outside of the rookie year of Marino in 1983,the difference for the rushing yards was so crazy in playoffs loss of the Dolphins under Marino.Look at this 211-25 255-68 182-33 202-26 341-70 250-14 257-21 Miami Dolphins Playoff History | Pro-Football-Reference.com It was the rushing yards in 7 of the 10 playoffs loss of the Dolphins with Marino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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