Rogerthat Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I am concerned whenever the team wastes resources and blows player evaluations. Because there is no guarantee that they are not going to blow player evaluations this offseason and throw more money on the fire. But we need to keep Pace for two more years until his contract expires to evaluate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Hindsight is 20/20. I don't recall you saying he was an awful player when he was signed. You are of course saying that now that you've seen him play 4 games in a Bears uniform. I didn't exactly like the signing either but I could understand why Pace did it. Glennon was a known backup with some starter potential, like a Josh McCown type of QB. No one was expecting him to come in and be the savior. He was a pure 1-year stop gap that didn't work out, which was even more evident after Bears drafted Trubisky. Time for people to get over it. No, but I am also not a professional talent evaluator with the resources and expertise of an NFL team. All I can assess is the thought process and results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 59 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I am concerned whenever the team wastes resources and blows player evaluations. Because there is no guarantee that they are not going to blow player evaluations this offseason and throw more money on the fire. Ok but can I ask you this, as quick as you are to point out the waste of money from this past offseason where is the credit towards the FO from the previous offseason signings in Hicks (who was re-signed), Trevethan (dirt cheap contract), Freeman (another dirt cheap contract), Unrein and Sitton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 12 minutes ago, Rogerthat said: But we need to keep Pace for two more years until his contract expires to evaluate him? 1 badly blown evaluation is not enough to fire someone. It is a piece of data in a larger subset. As Top said if Trubisky is right that is a much more important data point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Windy, meetings with the boss of your boss, aka a “skip level” meeting, are entirely commonplace in corporate America. I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies for almost 15 years and have done at least one of these meetings every year, whether my immediate supervisor was on solid or shaky ground. As to Glennon, he has no bearing on the future of the Chicago Bears. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. This whole thread is about the future direction of the team, and Glennon has no place in that future. So for the love of God can we stop beating the GD dead horse already? It’s spent money. Pace bought big on Glennon knowing he was drafting Trubisky in hoping he was legit enough this year to turn into a viable asset this offseason, and then he rolled snake eyes. Have you never spent a crap ton of money on something that turned out to be supremely disappointing? Car was a lemon? Investment went bad? Jewelry for a girl who left you shortly thereafter? HD-DVD player instead of a Blu-Ray? It sucks, but it happens. Move on already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Ok but can I ask you this, as quick as you are to point out the waste of money from this past offseason where is the credit towards the FO from the previous offseason signings in Hicks (who was re-signed), Trevethan (dirt cheap contract), Freeman (another dirt cheap contract), Unrein and Sitton? I 100% give them credit for their good free agent moves. They have made some, but the number of good free agent moves is dwarfed by the number of bad. At the same time the number of good draft picks dwarf the really bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Windy, meetings with the boss of your boss, aka a “skip level” meeting, are entirely commonplace in corporate America. I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies for almost 15 years and have done at least one of these meetings every year, whether my immediate supervisor was on solid or shaky ground. As to Glennon, he has no bearing on the future of the Chicago Bears. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. This whole thread is about the future direction of the team, and Glennon has no place in that future. So for the love of God can we stop beating the GD dead horse already? It’s spent money. Pace bought big on Glennon knowing he was drafting Trubisky in hoping he was legit enough this year to turn into a viable asset this offseason, and then he rolled snake eyes. Have you never spent a crap ton of money on something that turned out to be supremely disappointing? Car was a lemon? Investment went bad? Jewelry for a girl who left you shortly thereafter? HD-DVD player instead of a Blu-Ray? It sucks, but it happens. Move on already. I have wasted money. I focus on it so it does not happen again. Glennon does have a bearing on the future. Every dollar he made could have been rolled forward into the 2018 season and used to build an even better team around Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I 100% give them credit for their good free agent moves. They have made some, but the number of good free agent moves is dwarfed by the number of bad. At the same time the number of good draft picks dwarf the really bad one. Are they really though? Have you actually analyzed the total amount of money spent by Pace on FAs since he's been GM and compared the good signings to the bad ones in terms of guaranteed money in order to arrive at that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, topwop1 said: Are they really though? Have you actually analyzed the total amount of money spent by Pace on FAs since he's been GM and compared the good signings to the bad ones in order to arrive at that conclusion? Yes, if you look at multi year-multi million dollar deals that he has given in free agency the negative ledger is really full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Yes, if you look at multi year-multi million dollar deals that he has given in free agency the negative ledger is really full. I'm going to have to look into this a bit more because I'm talking about guaranteed money only. I don't care if we signed a guy to multi year deal if I can cut him this off season with no major impact on the team's spending on the upcoming FA and the draft classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 23 minutes ago, topwop1 said: I'm going to have to look into this a bit more because I'm talking about guaranteed money only. I don't care if we signed a guy to multi year deal if I can cut him this off season with no major impact on the team's spending on the upcoming FA and the draft classes. Poor Investments Pernell McPhee-15.5 guaranteed Antrel Rolle-5 guaranteed Eddie Royal-10 guaranteed Alan Ball-3 million 33.5 million guaranteed Mike Glennon-18.5 guaranteed Dion Sims-10 guaranteed Markus Wheaton-6 guaranteed Marcus Cooper-6 guaranteed I will not count Demps although he did little. 40.5 million guaranteed 73.5 million guaranteed with very little return. Good Investments Danny Trevathan-15.5 Akiem Hicks-5 guaranteed Jerrell Freeman-6 guaranteed Josh Sitton-10 guaranteed Prince Amukamara-7 guaranteed 43.5 million guaranteed with good return * I am not sure where to put Bobbie Massie and his 6 million guaranteed, I do not think he has been very good, but he has not been bad as other and he has started a lot of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Mcphee was a monster his first season and was generating solid pressure last year. I wouldn't call that a bad signing just a middle of the ground one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, Nads786 said: Mcphee was a monster his first season and was generating solid pressure last year. I wouldn't call that a bad signing just a middle of the ground one. He played well for 12 games Since he has been crippled and either missed games and borderline unplayable in others. It was also well known that he had knee issues in Baltimore and that was a big reason for him being let go. You essentially paid 15.5 million for 12 games before knees, that you knew were bad, gave out. Since that moment he has made 15 million dollar to barely play and to be mediocre at best when playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Poor Investments Pernell McPhee-15.5 guaranteed Antrel Rolle-5 guaranteed Eddie Royal-10 guaranteed Alan Ball-3 million 33.5 million guaranteed Mike Glennon-18.5 guaranteed Dion Sims-10 guaranteed Markus Wheaton-6 guaranteed Marcus Cooper-6 guaranteed I will not count Demps although he did little. 40.5 million guaranteed 73.5 million guaranteed with very little return. Good Investments Danny Trevathan-15.5 Akiem Hicks-5 guaranteed Jerrell Freeman-6 guaranteed Josh Sitton-10 guaranteed Prince Amukamara-7 guaranteed 43.5 million guaranteed with good return * I am not sure where to put Bobbie Massie and his 6 million guaranteed, I do not think he has been very good, but he has not been bad as other and he has started a lot of games. Good stuff retrieving the numbers. I just have a couple of differing opinions. First, I don't think we can say that all $15.5 million of McPhee's guaranteed was a waste. I'd say counting half of that is fair due to injury. Second, i would not say all of Cooper's $6 million guaranteed was a waste either. Isn't he signed to a two year deal? Let's see how this one plays out a bit more before declaring it a bust. When you subtract that from the $73.5 million in what you claim as bad investments it's roughly $60 M vs good at $43.5 M. Not as dwarfing as it seems, but I'll agree it does say that Pace and his PP department have room to improve in this area and need to do a better job going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 The Bears have paid Pernell McPhee 22 million and gotten 16 starts and 14 sacks in 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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