The Jalen Carter Conundrum

[Bigbear72]

First, let me start this off by saying that this is just my opinion based off of my life experience. I realize everyone will not share this point of view and I'm fine with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That being said, I think everyone should slow down on their rush to judgement when it comes to this young man. I am in no way condoning his actions or how he has handled things thus far. Quite frankly it is deplorable. However, how many of us would like to be judged based off of our worst moment? I know I certainly would not. Let me elaborate.

I was raised in low income housing on the southside of Chicago. I have seen a lot of tragic things in my life. As you can imagine the area that I lived in was crime and gang infested. As a young man, you tend to be influenced by your surroundings (of course there are exceptions). I, myself, have been involved in gang activity. I made some very poor decisions. But if I didn't have an ah ha moment (mine was having two daughters), who knows how my life would have turned out. Since those days, I have gone on to be active in my community. I have been mentoring young men for over 20 years. I have been a coach (football, wrestling, and martial arts), husband, and a pretty good father. I have a fulfilling career in healthcare. I have graduated college. I am well thought of at my place of employment and am looked upon as a leader there. But if people judged me by mistakes I made as a teenager and young adult I never would have been afforded the opportunity to realize any of these things. I have also been the witness, both actively and passively, of other young men that have turned things around. This is why I am a firm believer in second chances and redemption. I think that we as a society, have the inclination to rush to judgement without proper context. 

Again, I am not saying in anyway that what Carter has done is excusable. He should have owned up to his actions from the start. What I am saying is that his actions do not necessarily make him evil or a bad person, it just means that he is flawed. Flaws and character deficiency can improve if there is a desire to do so. Maybe this is Carter's ah ha moment. Maybe this young man can turn it around (by most accounts players like Ray Lewis and Michael Vick have). He may very well end up being a piece of crap that deserves no sympathy, but this young man still has a lot of life to live with the opportunity to turn things around. I'm not ready to label him one way or another. I'm just saying we need to let his story play out a little more before we draw a definitive conclusion. I know it is human nature to think of things in extremes. That everything is black and white or completely one way or another. But most things rarely are. We live in a gray world.  

Edited March 3, 2023 by Bigbear72

[dll2000]

We don’t know whole story yet.  Initial information on many things that hit media is almost never whole truth.  

People never learn though and start forming conclusions right away.  Take him off board, fire that guy, start a riot, whatever. 

The first to plead his case seems right,
Until another comes and examines him.

Remember we passed on Dan Marino twice in first round, Randy Moss, Tyreek Hill, Lael Collins went undrafted, Laremy Tunsil, and lately George Pickens.  Warren Sapp fell too far.  

I don’t know what I would do because I don’t have all info.  But keep all that in mind.  

A lot of guys you don’t know about have really bad things in their background.  It just isn’t known.  

[dll2000]

55 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

First, let me start this off by saying that this is just my opinion based off of my life experience. I realize everyone will not share this point of view and I'm fine with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That being said, I think everyone should slow down on their rush to judgement when it comes to this young man. I am in no way condoning his actions or how he has handled things thus far. Quite frankly it is deplorable. However, how many of us would like to be judged based off of our worst moment? I know I certainly would not. Let me elaborate.

I was raised in low income housing on the southside of Chicago. I have seen a lot of tragic things in my life. As you can imagine the area that I lived in was crime and gang infested. As a young man, you tend to be influenced by your surroundings (of course there are exceptions). I, myself, have been involved in gang activity. I made some very poor decisions. But if I didn't have an ah ha moment (mine was having two daughters), who knows how my life would have turned out. Since those days, I have gone on to be active in my community. I have been mentoring young men for over 20 years. I have been a coach (football, wrestling, and martial arts), husband, and a pretty good father. I have a fulfilling career in healthcare. I have graduated college. I am well thought of at my place of employment and am look upon as a leader there. But if people judged me by mistakes I made as a teenager and young adult I never would have been afforded the opportunity to realize any of these things. I have also been the witness, both actively and passively, of other young men that have turned things around. This is why I am a firm believer in second chances and redemption. I think that we as a society, have the inclination to rush to judgement without proper context. 

Again, I am not saying in anyway that what Carter has done is excusable. He should have owned up to his actions from the start. What I am saying is that his actions do not necessarily make him evil or a bad person, it just means that he is flawed. Flaws and character deficiency can improve if there is a desire to do so. Maybe this is Carter's ah ha moment. Maybe this young man can turn it around (by most accounts players like Ray Lewis and Michael Vick have). He may very well end up being a piece of crap that deserves no sympathy, but this young man still has a lot of life to live with the opportunity to turn things around. I'm not ready to label him one way or another. I'm just saying we need to let his story play out a little more before we draw a definitive conclusion. I know it is human nature to think of things in extremes. That everything is black and white or completely one way or another. But most things rarely are. We live in a gray world.  

Some good points in here.  

We should all be quick to forgive as we have all been forgiven many things.  

Think on all wrong things we have done.  No one is good. 

This is not say there shouldn’t be punishment or justice for wrong doing.  

But we personally should be quickly forgiving of others.   I am telling you forgiving someone messes with their mind like you wouldn’t believe.  

Try it sometime and watch what comes of it.  

[CBears019]

I havent followed this story too closely, but from what I’ve read there’s been a lot of different tales, likely influenced by speculation.  Anyone got a link to a story that breaks this down pretty thoroughly?

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Bigbear72 said:

First, let me start this off by saying that this is just my opinion based off of my life experience. I realize everyone will not share this point of view and I'm fine with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That being said, I think everyone should slow down on their rush to judgement when it comes to this young man. I am in no way condoning his actions or how he has handled things thus far. Quite frankly it is deplorable. However, how many of us would like to be judged based off of our worst moment? I know I certainly would not. Let me elaborate.

I was raised in low income housing on the southside of Chicago. I have seen a lot of tragic things in my life. As you can imagine the area that I lived in was crime and gang infested. As a young man, you tend to be influenced by your surroundings (of course there are exceptions). I, myself, have been involved in gang activity. I made some very poor decisions. But if I didn't have an ah ha moment (mine was having two daughters), who knows how my life would have turned out. Since those days, I have gone on to be active in my community. I have been mentoring young men for over 20 years. I have been a coach (football, wrestling, and martial arts), husband, and a pretty good father. I have a fulfilling career in healthcare. I have graduated college. I am well thought of at my place of employment and am look upon as a leader there. But if people judged me by mistakes I made as a teenager and young adult I never would have been afforded the opportunity to realize any of these things. I have also been the witness, both actively and passively, of other young men that have turned things around. This is why I am a firm believer in second chances and redemption. I think that we as a society, have the inclination to rush to judgement without proper context. 

Again, I am not saying in anyway that what Carter has done is excusable. He should have owned up to his actions from the start. What I am saying is that his actions do not necessarily make him evil or a bad person, it just means that he is flawed. Flaws and character deficiency can improve if there is a desire to do so. Maybe this is Carter's ah ha moment. Maybe this young man can turn it around (by most accounts players like Ray Lewis and Michael Vick have). He may very well end up being a piece of crap that deserves no sympathy, but this young man still has a lot of life to live with the opportunity to turn things around. I'm not ready to label him one way or another. I'm just saying we need to let his story play out a little more before we draw a definitive conclusion. I know it is human nature to think of things in extremes. That everything is black and white or completely one way or another. But most things rarely are. We live in a gray world.  

Definitely have some points here, a lot of the reason I am just waiting. He's going to have a penalty somehow and whether it is draft position, legal punishment, or just public perception he will have dues to pay.

Honestly with some of the dumb stuff we have done, definitely myself included, we were lucky to grow up when social media was either non-existent or in its infancy. Moving back to where I grew up to take care of my wife's grandmother I was kind of worried that some of the stories from my family's past would come back and cause issues for my kids. Seems mostly an overthought of my own, but there are still concerns. Kids today get away with less and NOTHING is ever really "gone" like it could have been with us.

 

[TankWilliams]

Personally, I'm passing on him, unless we trade down out of the top 10 and he still is available.  

[Bigbear72]

1 minute ago, TankWilliams said:

Personally, I'm passing on him, unless we trade down out of the top 10 and he still is available.  

Trading down is completely rational and understandable. There is now greater risk involved, and therefore, the price of obtaining him, probably and should be reduced. Afterall, we are not in position to take that great of a risk that high in the draft. As Suga said, there will be a penalty for his actions. I am saying this more towards the crowd (and there are many out there) that are calling him names and stating that he shouldn't be drafted because he is going to jail for the rest of his life for murder (no one to that extreme on our board but I have seen it posted on a lot of platforms and in a lot places outside of the Bears Forum).

[dll2000]

35 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

I havent followed this story too closely, but from what I’ve read there’s been a lot of different tales, likely influenced by speculation.  Anyone got a link to a story that breaks this down pretty thoroughly?

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/uga-star-charged-deadly-crash-turns-himself-released-shortly-after-records-show/A7YOPTD6C5HWVOURP6RPNL45SQ/

[topwop1]

Agreed with the OP that Carter deserves a second chance. 

It's clear he's pretty immature and still needs some growing up to do but that can be expected with a lot of these prospects who are in their early 20s

That being said wasn't this his second brush in with the law in the past 6 months due to wreckless driving? That's a bit concerning 

To be honest though I'm more worried about the rumors that he doesn't really love the game of football and just goes through the motions because he can ...he's that talented.

You have to be a little apprehensive about that if your Poles and Co. But after all it's their job to find out the nitty gritty details about the person when going through the pre draft process...so just have to trust whatever happens was done with full due diligence whether we pass on Carter or take him come draft time 

Edited March 3, 2023 by topwop1

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

You make great points about the measure of a man, but that's not the question here. Rather it's one of how much risk does this add to a high risk decision?  I doubt the people making the decision about whether or when to draft Jalen Carter are thinking about him as a person so much as weighing how bad they will look if they do/don't and he fails off the field or prospers on it. 

[Bigbear72]

18 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

You make great points about the measure of a man, but that's not the question here. Rather it's one of how much risk does this add to a high risk decision?  I doubt the people making the decision about whether or when to draft Jalen Carter are thinking about him as a person so much as weighing how bad they will look if they do/don't and he fails off the field or prospers on it. 

I completely understand that the perspective I spoke of in my opening post is not the totality of the situation. I also understand the risk that will be associated with drafting him at the top of the draft from a football operational standpoint. It is not dissimilar to running a background check on a perspective employee. While a criminal background may not disqualify someone from employment it is something to fact into the decision. I was strictly referring to the rush to crucify and cast aside Carter based upon initial reports without having full information or context. Additionally, I disagree with those who are quick to label him as a monster based off of this event. History (both secular and non-secular) is full of individuals that made incredibly poor decisions early on in life and then redeemed themselves and went on to great accomplishments. 

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

Agreed with the OP that Carter deserves a second chance. 

It's clear he's pretty immature and still needs some growing up to do but that can be expected with a lot of these prospects who are in their early 20s

That being said wasn't this his second brush in with the law in the past 6 months due to wreckless driving? That's a bit concerning 

To be honest though I'm more worried about the rumors that he doesn't really love the game of football and just goes through the motions because he can ...he's that talented.

You have to be a little apprehensive about that if your Poles and Co. But after all it's their job to find out the nitty gritty details about the person when going through the pre draft process...so just have to trust whatever happens was done with full due diligence whether we pass on Carter or take him come draft time 

This.

The reports that he doesn't work hard at the sport are from a GM perspective more concerning than him getting in a drag race.

Fact that he may have made same or similar mistake twice in a short period of time (first I am hearing of that) is also very concerning.

Those are things that should bump him down if true.

Lawrence Taylor was a hard partying heavy drinker who did drugs and Parcels knew it.   He even slept at meetings.   But he was there and he loved football and performed.  He won games.  

That is just reality.

On other hand, NFL is also more strict than it was during Taylor's day and quicker to suspend.   There weren't cell phone and street light cameras in 80s.  

Plus, I want hard workers because other players watch the best players.  Allen Iverson is a stud, but I want the guy who works hard all the time.  

[Bigbear72]

24 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

This.

The reports that he doesn't work hard at the sport are from a GM perspective more concerning than him getting in a drag race.

Fact that he may have made same or similar mistake twice in a short period of time (first I am hearing of that) is also very concerning.

Those are things that should bump him down if true.

Lawrence Taylor was a hard partying heavy drinker who did drugs and Parcels knew it.   He even slept at meetings.   But he was there and he loved football and performed.  He won games.  

That is just reality.

On other hand, NFL is also more strict than it was during Taylor's day and quicker to suspend.   There weren't cell phone and street light cameras in 80s.  

Plus, I want hard workers because other players watch the best players.  Allen Iverson is a stud, but I want the guy who works hard all the time.  

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

34 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

I completely understand that the perspective I spoke of in my opening post is not the totality of the situation. I also understand the risk that will be associated with drafting him at the top of the draft from a football operational standpoint. It is not dissimilar to running a background check on a perspective employee. While a criminal background may not disqualify someone from employment it is something to fact into the decision. I was strictly referring to the rush to crucify and cast aside Carter based upon initial reports without having full information or context. Additionally, I disagree with those who are quick to label him as a monster based off of this event. History (both secular and non-secular) is full of individuals that made incredibly poor decisions early on in life and then redeemed themselves and went on to great accomplishments. 

I agree about the need to pile on to famous people and stars, but the truth of it is that if Carter busts for effort or gets cut for off the field activities, Poles is always going to have that around his neck.  Talking heads are going to forget it all if he's great, but if ANYTHING comes up they're going to be questioning why the Bears took him at 1, 2, 4 or 9.  It's not fair but no matter how dumb fans get the collective memory holds on to the bad stuff, especially for certain players.  My memory of Trubisky's one great game is tarnished because a couple of jagbags wouldn't stop ****ting on Jameis Winston and making crab claw jokes.  Poles has a great opportunity with the Bears but the risks are sky high and he doesn't want to be a joke if Carter runs over a kitten parade in October. 

[dll2000]

23 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I agree about the need to pile on to famous people and stars, but the truth of it is that if Carter busts for effort or gets cut for off the field activities, Poles is always going to have that around his neck.  Talking heads are going to forget it all if he's great, but if ANYTHING comes up they're going to be questioning why the Bears took him at 1, 2, 4 or 9.  It's not fair but no matter how dumb fans get the collective memory holds on to the bad stuff, especially for certain players.  My memory of Trubisky's one great game is tarnished because a couple of jagbags wouldn't stop ****ting on Jameis Winston and making crab claw jokes.  Poles has a great opportunity with the Bears but the risks are sky high and he doesn't want to be a joke if Carter runs over a kitten parade in October. 

Running over a kitten parade.

LOL.  That struck me as really funny as I pictured it.

So ridiculous to happen.  And then even more ridiculous for someone to run it over.