Ravens place tag on QB Lamar Jackson; Jackson requests trade (Page 52)

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

9 times a QB passed for more TDs in a season than Lamar had total TDs in 2019. 119 times a QB passed for more yards than Lamar had passing and rushing that season.

[malibuspeedrace]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

You said he didn't get better stats because they were in blowouts, I showed you that his best stats were from blowouts and in close games he didn't have good stats. Not sure why you are now debating that he got pulled since that was still his best game and doesn't help your original point at all.

I don't hate Lamar, I root against him because he is in my division. I just debate Lamar supporters who are illogical. 9 times a QB passed for more TDs in a season than Lamar had total TDs in 2019. 119 times a QB passed for more yards than Lamar had passing and rushing that season.

He had a great season which he has never come close to again, somehow that doesn't make me think he should be paid like the GOAT.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

You said he didn't get better stats because they were in blowouts, I showed you that his best stats were from blowouts and in close games he didn't have good stats. Not sure why you are now debating that he got pulled since that was still his best game and doesn't help your original point at all.

I don't hate Lamar, I root against him because he is in my division. I just debate Lamar supporters who are illogical. 9 times a QB passed for more TDs in a season than Lamar had total TDs in 2019. 119 times a QB passed for more yards than Lamar had passing and rushing that season.

He had a great season which he has never come close to again, somehow that doesn't make me think he should be paid like the GOAT.

[NYRaider]

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it's funny seeing the kind of takes a polarized situation like this brings out. Who knew Patrick Mahomes was to blame all along?-    

 

The only thing that we've seen is that if you're even above average at QB you're going to get a huge contract. Elite guys like Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers have gotten massive deals. But even average/above average guys like Carr, Dak, Danny Dimes, Kyler, Kirk, etc. have gotten huge contracts. It's 100% clear the only reason Lamar doesn't have a deal is because he's being unrealistic with his demands.

Mahomes signed a massive deal with a small amount of GTD money and that set the precedent for Lamar to demand a fully GTD deal?

Edited April 2, 2023 by NYRaider

[typecast]

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Mahomes signed a massive deal with a small amount of GTD money and that set the precedent for Lamar to demand a fully GTD deal?

Everything Sherman actually said was

Quote

What pissed me off, is when Kirk Cousins got his fully guaranteed deal a couple years ago, I thought all the quarterbacks from then on were gonna be like, 'Hey, if it ain't guaranteed, I ain't takin' it.'

Then Mahomes took that B.S. deal, just 10 years, wanted to look like half a (billion). But if you get half of that fully guaranteed, everybody's happier. Everybody goes, 'That sets precedent.' But when he didn't set it, Josh Allen didn't set it, now Lamar's trying to set it after Deshaun (Watson)'s already set it, and they're like, 'Nah, we ain't letting that go.'

 

[warfelg]

14 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Hollywood Brown was good, but he's not a WR1 like many other QB's have. Great deep threat, though.

Has Lamars best WR generally been a deep threat?  I feel like it was that way for Flacco too.  While B’More struggles to find all around WR’s, it’s like the role is what’s more important because the offense is run, run, shallow crosser to TE, run, run, deep pass, run, run.  So it’s almost like, since Harbaugh has come along, the WR is a role in an offense not a play maker in the offense.

[warfelg]

9 hours ago, typecast said:

Everything Sherman actually said was

 

And I kinda get his point here.  He (and many players) feel that when you are one of the best at your position your job and responsibility as the best player is to raise the ceiling of what players at your position can get.

Luckily for players when Tom Brady was playing, there was enough quality at the position that other guys had the ability to push the limits of the QB contract.  With Mahomes not doing that, and frankly not many QB’s being on that level, it gave owners the power to not push the limits (Watson situation aside).  

 

Now I don’t fully agree with Sherman because Mahomes contract had natural built in restructure points that will push what was base into a guaranteed area.  Having that built into his contract meant that not as much was needed upfront so to speak.  And Mahomes seems to have a little of that “Brady” in him where he knows he can get his money and have this structures to still get his money as well.

[AngusMcFife]

13 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

You said he didn't get better stats because they were in blowouts, I showed you that his best stats were from blowouts and in close games he didn't have good stats. Not sure why you are now debating that he got pulled since that was still his best game and doesn't help your original point at all.

So you are saying that Lamar's stats are better in games when the team scored in the 40s and 50s then when in the 20s? I wonder why that is? 

So for instance, you are calling the 23-17 game the Ravens won vs the Bengals a game where Lamar "didn't have good stats?" Where he rushed for 150 yards and threw for 230 yards, but it wasn't a good game because he didn't throw for any TDs? 

What an unbelievably dumb take. 

Quote

I don't hate Lamar, I root against him because he is in my division. I just debate Lamar supporters who are illogical. 9 times a QB passed for more TDs in a season than Lamar had total TDs in 2019. 119 times a QB passed for more yards than Lamar had passing and rushing that season.

You are fixating on the total stats rather on efficiency.

In Lamar's 2019 season he had:

113.3 QB rating while going 13-2
7 yards/carry for 1200

A QB having a 113.3 QB rating for a full season is tremendous on its own. 

A runner who gets 1200 yards at 7 yards/carry is tremendous on its own. 

So for a single player to combine that passing efficiency and rushing efficiency over the course of a season is an all time great season. Youngest MVP since Jim Brown, 2nd unanimous MVP ever, ranked #1 by players, etc. Nothing you say will take away from the fact that he was uniquely dominant that year.  

Quote

He had a great season which he has never come close to again, somehow that doesn't make me think he should be paid like the GOAT.

Yeah I agree he shouldn't get paid that much. I just disagree with your statement that he didn't have a great peak in 2019. 

[AngusMcFife]

15 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

In the 4 real blowout wins for the Ravens Lamar had 17 passing TD and no INT. In their 5 one score wins Lamar had 7 TD and 4 INT. Which of those games do you think won him the MVP? The blowouts or the close wins?

Just to review this moronic take:

Week 2 vs ARI: (1 score game) 
Passing: 272 yards, 2 TDs
Rushing: 120 yards, 7.5 yards/carry

Week 6 vs CIN (1 score game)
Passing: 236 yards
Rushing: 150 yards, 8 yards/carry

Week 15 vs. NYJ (not real blowout)
Passing: 212 yards, 5 TDs
Rushing: 86 yards, 10.8 yards/carry

Week 16 vs CLE (not real blowout) 
Passing: 238 yards, 3 TDs
Rushing: 103 yards at 6.1 yards/carry

So you think these performances have not much to do with winning an MVP? Your attempt to cherry pick stats blows up the moment anyone actually checks what you are saying. 

 

[AngusMcFife]

12 hours ago, malibuspeedrace said:

 

12 hours ago, ET80 said:

Not being able to tell when you get manipulated by cherry picked stats is a loss for you, not me. But why check on whether an argument is legitimate when you can just post GIFs? 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Has Lamars best WR generally been a deep threat?  I feel like it was that way for Flacco too.  While B’More struggles to find all around WR’s, it’s like the role is what’s more important because the offense is run, run, shallow crosser to TE, run, run, deep pass, run, run.  So it’s almost like, since Harbaugh has come along, the WR is a role in an offense not a play maker in the offense.

Flacco's best WR's were possession guys: Derrick Mason, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith Sr.

The only good deep threat we ever had was Torrey Smith and for a season Mike Wallace.

With Lamar, he's never even had a WR worth a damn outside of Hollywood so it's hard to say who his "best WR's" have been because it's largely just been Mark Andrews.

[warfelg]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Flacco's best WR's were possession guys: Derrick Mason, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith Sr.

The only good deep threat we ever had was Torrey Smith and for a season Mike Wallace.

With Lamar, he's never even had a WR worth a damn outside of Hollywood so it's hard to say who his "best WR's" have been because it's largely just been Mark Andrews.

Should have said “best outside” guy. But especially with Lamar the feeling to me has been speed guys. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Should have said “best outside” guy. But especially with Lamar the feeling to me has been speed guys. 

Lamar has never really had good anything on the outside besides Hollywood, so again it's really hard to even pinpoint what kind of WR he likes out there lol

[malibuspeedrace]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

 

Not being able to tell when you get manipulated by cherry picked stats is a loss for you, not me. But why check on whether an argument is legitimate when you can just post GIFs? 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said:

Just to review this moronic take:

Week 2 vs ARI: (1 score game) 
Passing: 272 yards, 2 TDs
Rushing: 120 yards, 7.5 yards/carry

Week 6 vs CIN (1 score game)
Passing: 236 yards
Rushing: 150 yards, 8 yards/carry

Week 15 vs. NYJ (not real blowout)
Passing: 212 yards, 5 TDs
Rushing: 86 yards, 10.8 yards/carry

Week 16 vs CLE (not real blowout) 
Passing: 238 yards, 3 TDs
Rushing: 103 yards at 6.1 yards/carry

So you think these performances have not much to do with winning an MVP? Your attempt to cherry pick stats blows up the moment anyone actually checks what you are saying. 

 

You looked at the games, you know what I can show next. Also, Up 4 TDs against the Jets going into the 4th quarter qualifies as a blowout. Odd how you are using two games that weren't one score games to prove that he did well in one score games.

How about the Steelers game that they won by 3 and had 1 TD and 3 picks and 161 passing yards (70 rushing). The 3 point win against the 49ers where he passed for 105 yards with a TD and ran 101 and a TD and lost a fumble.

He had a great year. It just wasn't as great as you think it was. It also was one year, which isn't a "peak" or else Josh Gordon would be going in the HOF.