CWood21 Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: I have no issues with his mechanics. I think they are solid. Your concerns over his change up are valid though, it’s a pretty weak pitch right now. This is just guessing on my part, but I’m willing to bet he hasn’t had to have a 3rd pitch in previous years being in the BP last year. So the change up is still fairly new. If it can be just an average pitch for him where you see it 8-10% of the time, I think you’re looking at a Lance Lynn type starter. Fastball/Slider guy who can eat 200+ innings for ya. It's more the effort rather than the delivery itself. There's a lot of effort on that shoulder, and that could cause issues down the road. And it might have been for a lack of need, but you'd anticipate it to show out as an at least an average change-up. It appears to be a below-average pitch right now. Again, I wouldn't hate the pick but not really someone I'm tripping over myself to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Lets talk RHP Michael McGreevy the Cardinals 1st round draft selection tonight.... Wasn't really a guy on my radar, at first I was a little disappointed because we still had some really high ceiling guys on the board, like Bubba Chandler. But was really happy it wasn't Jordan Wicks. But then after I started reading up on McGreevy more and started watched more of the "tape" on youtube, the more and more I started to like the pick. McGreevy stands at 6'4 215 pounds, and has only been pitching for 2 seasons as he was a SS out of High School. He's a young Junior, just turned 21 years old less than a week ago. Has a 4-pitch repertoire and from everything I've read on them, they can all be affective big league pitches. Sat in the High 80's with his FB in 2020 but during Quarantine put on some additional muscle and constantly sits 92-93 mph with his FB and has reached 96 mph on occasion in 2021. His Control might very well be a 70 grade and the best in the class as he's only walked 11 batters in 101 innings pitched this year. I'm so-so on his delivery right now. They aren't the worst mechanics I've ever seen, rather quiet delivery but it seems like he puts a lot of stress on his throwing shoulder and doesn't use his lower half to his full advantage. But I mean who am I to question a guy's pitching mechanics when he's got like the best command in this draft class. He definitely slides somewhere into our top 10. If I had to give you one right now it would probably look something like... 1. Jordan Walker 3B 2. Matthew Liberatore LHP 3. Nolan Gorman 3B/2B 4. Ivan Herrera C 5. Masyn Winn SS 6. Michael McGreevy RHP Not the sexiest pick in the first round, but McGreevy is a player with a really high floor, probably a guy who you could see in Double-A next year and be knocking on the door to the Big Leagues as early as 2023. 1. Jack Flaherty 2. Alex Reyes 3. Matthew Liberatore 4. Dakota Hudson 5. Michael McGreevy That's a future rotation I could get behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I actually like the McGreevy pick. The cardinals turned back the clock with this pick, going back to the familiar well of college SP with upside who will move quickly through the system. They've been very good in the past at developing these guys (ala the Michael Wacha, Marco Gonzales, Luke Weaver, etc.). He's got a good potential for 4 above average pitches, with the slider and sinker leading the way. Throws a ton of strikes. He's also an outstanding athlete. Seems like his upside is a middle or the rotation guy. Those are invaluable nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: I actually like the McGreevy pick. The cardinals turned back the clock with this pick, going back to the familiar well of college SP with upside who will move quickly through the system. They've been very good in the past at developing these guys (ala the Michael Wacha, Marco Gonzales, Luke Weaver, etc.). He's got a good potential for 4 above average pitches, with the slider and sinker leading the way. Throws a ton of strikes. He's also an outstanding athlete. Seems like his upside is a middle or the rotation guy. Those are invaluable nowadays. Hey now, I said I liked the pick! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 10 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: 1. Jack Flaherty 2. Alex Reyes 3. Matthew Liberatore 4. Dakota Hudson 5. Michael McGreevy That's a future rotation I could get behind. You might want to start getting used to the idea of that future rotation not including Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: You might want to start getting used to the idea of that future rotation not including Jack Hard to say at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 55 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: You might want to start getting used to the idea of that future rotation not including Jack I think we're in a position to turn it around quickly. We just need to get another starter and a reliever. Those are easier said than done, but we have control of Jack for another 2 years. We'll shed a bunch of salary next year, we've got some cheap talent coming up, we've got trade pieces that are actually not at their lowest possible value like always. We could be at the top of the league in a year. Obvi, that's an optimistic take, but I think it's not unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I think we can rule out Flaherty signing an extension early. He's been a huge advocate and voiced opinion on reforming the system regarding how long teams have player control to start their careers. He's gonna want the most he can get, so we have a 50/50 shot at best in my opinion to retain him once he hits FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 16 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Lets talk RHP Michael McGreevy the Cardinals 1st round draft selection tonight.... I don't hate it, but I also don't love the pick. Just kind of a meh pick. The kid throws strikes, which given the state of the current Cardinals' pitching staff...well, nothing more needs to be said. That being said, there's a bit of inherent risk here. He saw an uptick in his fastball velocity this year, and his off-speed stuff seemed to improve but if those don't stay then he's probably nothing more than a long reliever. I've seen both a Rick Porcello (the MLB player, not the prospect) and Jake Odorizzi comps to him, which wouldn't be the worst outcome. It's just not a very inspiring pick by any means. The good news is they'll probably be able to save some money with his selection. 16 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: He definitely slides somewhere into our top 10. If I had to give you one right now it would probably look something like... 1. Jordan Walker 3B 2. Matthew Liberatore LHP 3. Nolan Gorman 3B/2B 4. Ivan Herrera C 5. Masyn Winn SS 6. Michael McGreevy RHP Our top 6 at this point I think is Liberatore, Gorman, Walker, Herrera, Thompson, and Winn in that order. Probably could flip Walker and Herrera tbh. As impressive as Jordan Walker has been, he's also playing at Low-A up until recently. Liberatore has been pitching well at AAA, and he should probably get his call up within the next month you'd have to assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 @CWood21 I'm Not really concerned with his sudden uptick in Velocity, I think it's as simple as him putting some muscle on during Quarantine. I don't however think were going to be seeing 97 mph from him like some Scouting Reports suggest he can dial it up to. He'll sit around 92-93 mph with some sink. It's not like he's jumping 8-12 mph in velocity here. He was sitting 88-89 mph before 2021. And did his secondary pitches improve or was this the first year he's gotten a chance to throw them consistently? Coming out of the BP the previous year, he was likely just throwing 2 pitches 90% of the time. Disagree with your top 6. I don't even think Thompson makes my top 10. And that's not me overreacting to a down year for him, I just didn't like the pick. And I don't think Liberatore should see the Majors this year, he's not ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: I'm Not really concerned with his sudden uptick in Velocity, I think it's as simple as him putting some muscle on during Quarantine. I don't however think were going to be seeing 97 mph from him like some Scouting Reports suggest he can dial it up to. He'll sit around 92-93 mph with some sink. It's not like he's jumping 8-12 mph in velocity here. He was sitting 88-89 mph before 2021. And did his secondary pitches improve or was this the first year he's gotten a chance to throw them consistently? Coming out of the BP the previous year, he was likely just throwing 2 pitches 90% of the time. Even if he's sitting in that 92/93 MPH range, that's good velocity. Not great velocity. You'd like to see another pitch that you could project as a potential plus pitch. 30 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Disagree with your top 6. I don't even think Thompson makes my top 10. And that's not me overreacting to a down year for him, I just didn't like the pick. And I don't think Liberatore should see the Majors this year, he's not ready. I think Thompson is clearly a top 10 prospect no matter how bad of a season he's havning now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I like the first picks. The pitchers look like fast risers that could be helping the big squad in 2-3 years. Big, strike throwers. Can’t be mad at that. 2nd rounder, Baez, looks like a huge boom or bust guy. Massive power, speed, and arm, but questionable hit tool. Safer bet pitchers and risky, power bats. I like the approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: Our top 6 at this point I think is Liberatore, Gorman, Walker, Herrera, Thompson, and Winn in that order. Probably could flip Walker and Herrera tbh. As impressive as Jordan Walker has been, he's also playing at Low-A up until recently. Liberatore has been pitching well at AAA, and he should probably get his call up within the next month you'd have to assume. He's also had almost a year and a half removed between any true baseball games (he had summer instructional league and that was it in 2020). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 23 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Hard to say at this point. 22 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I think we're in a position to turn it around quickly. We just need to get another starter and a reliever. Those are easier said than done, but we have control of Jack for another 2 years. We'll shed a bunch of salary next year, we've got some cheap talent coming up, we've got trade pieces that are actually not at their lowest possible value like always. We could be at the top of the league in a year. Obvi, that's an optimistic take, but I think it's not unreasonable. Guys, Im not saying that we cant sign Jack long term, as in we dont have the money/willingness to spend, or the potential contending team to do so. What Im saying is I wouldnt count on him wanting to stay here. As pointed out, he has constantly stated his distain for the process, so he will not be signing an early extension. (could this recent injury change that? still doubt it) And once he gets to free agency, its most likely highest bidder, not to mention it seems like there is a pull back to the West Coast for him, and he just doesnt mesh well with the St. Louis lifestyle. I honestly think there is a better chance we trade him away before the 2023 season than he ever signs a long term contract with the Cardinals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: Guys, Im not saying that we cant sign Jack long term, as in we dont have the money/willingness to spend, or the potential contending team to do so. What Im saying is I wouldnt count on him wanting to stay here. As pointed out, he has constantly stated his distain for the process, so he will not be signing an early extension. (could this recent injury change that? still doubt it) And once he gets to free agency, its most likely highest bidder, not to mention it seems like there is a pull back to the West Coast for him, and he just doesnt mesh well with the St. Louis lifestyle. I honestly think there is a better chance we trade him away before the 2023 season than he ever signs a long term contract with the Cardinals. Yeah I understand that. This has been everyone’s thoughts with Jack for a few years now. He’ll get to the open market and go to the highest bidder. “LA bound.” I get what you’re saying. I’m just saying, I wouldnt count the Cardinals out just yet. Let’s let it play itself out. Edited July 13, 2021 by holt_bruce81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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