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The STL Cardinals Thread - New Season, Same Old Cardinals?


CWood21

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7 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Id assume the tentative plan ( not factoring in full free agency, or setbacks) is to Re-sign Lynn, count the top 3 as him, Carlos and Wainwright. And lets see where Reyes is in his timeline, with him, Weaver and Wacha fight it out in the Spring for spots 4 & 5. 

If Reyes isnt fully ready, just extend his spring training in the minors. If Wacha looks good and Reyes is healthy, have Wacha start the year in Memphis, ready to take the slot of whomever is struggling (Waino/Wacha) or if there is an injury/setback. Or if it is obvious that Weaver and Reyes are the better pitchers, then its time to move Wacha to the bullpen. We do now have a giant hole at the Closer spot (and Wacha usually looks good the first time he sees batters)

Yep, that all makes sense to me.  I would really love it if they could even find a way to rotate Reyes, Weaver, and Wacha to limit all of their innings and/or keep them fresh.  But I think we know that's not happening.

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48 minutes ago, tttmikeb said:

Lol, I wasn't thinking about Wacha either.  And honestly, it's probably not wise to necessarily bank on him throwing 200 innings.  Maybe he can.  But with previous health concerns and how up and down he's been this year, that's tough to count on.  I mean, it's not like they're gonna just cut him.  But they've got to have someone ready to step in if necessary.  I guess that's where the young guys like Weaver, Flaherty, etc. come in.  

Or, they could move Wacha to the bullpen.  I still don't see that as likely, but with how well some of the young guys have pitched, and if they bring back Lynn, the have the roster flexibility to make a bullpen move work.

At this point, Wacha is tentatively in the rotation despite his issues.  And they don't need him to throw 200+ innings, if he can get in that 180-190 IP mark I'd consider that a success.  And if the Packers actually utilize the 10 day DL, they might not need more than one or two starters to throw 200+ IP.

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36 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Id assume the tentative plan ( not factoring in full free agency, or setbacks) is to Re-sign Lynn, count the top 3 as him, Carlos and Wainwright. And lets see where Reyes is in his timeline, with him, Weaver and Wacha fight it out in the Spring for spots 4 & 5. 

If Reyes isnt fully ready, just extend his spring training in the minors. If Wacha looks good and Reyes is healthy, have Wacha start the year in Memphis, ready to take the slot of whomever is struggling (Waino/Wacha) or if there is an injury/setback. Or if it is obvious that Weaver and Reyes are the better pitchers, then its time to move Wacha to the bullpen. We do now have a giant hole at the Closer spot (and Wacha usually looks good the first time he sees batters)

I'm not even sure they're going to re-sign Lance Lynn.  Between Lynn's comments about no ongoing discussion and Mozeliak's comments during the interview about being high on our young pitching, it wouldn't surprise me if the Cardinals really didn't view Lynn as a priority.  As I mentioned, Martinez, Wainwright, and Wacha are probably locks at this point.  Given that they moved Mike Leake which opened up a roster spot for Luke Weaver for the rest of the season, I'd imagine they have him projected to be in the rotation in 2018.  And Alex Reyes should be back, but he's clearly going to be on an innings limit (we can discuss more of this later).  And that's where Jack Flaherty comes in, he can be our shuttle SP when we want to give our pitchers time off.  It definitely wouldn't hurt to have Jack Flaherty get a bit more seasoning in Memphis, and wouldn't require the Cardinals to use a 40 man roster spot until after the Rule V draft.  And then next year, you have Dakota Hudson, Austin Gomber, and Zac Gallen in that Springfield/Memphis level in terms of depth.

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1 hour ago, holt_bruce81 said:

I didn't even know we called up Flaherty....sweet 

I almost wonder if they plan on using the next month or so as an audition towards 2018.  If so, I'd imagine we're going to see a few of our youngsters get significant PT in September when rosters expand.

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6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

At this point, Wacha is tentatively in the rotation despite his issues.  And they don't need him to throw 200+ innings, if he can get in that 180-190 IP mark I'd consider that a success.  And if the Packers actually utilize the 10 day DL, they might not need more than one or two starters to throw 200+ IP.

Does the NFL have a 10-day DL now, too? ;)

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I know it's MLBTR and all, but Jason Martinez had this speculation as to the future of the rotation.

Quote

I'd pencil in Luke Weaver and Jack Flaherty into rotation spots next April with Wainwright (if healthy) and Wacha and I think they'll target a frontline guy in free agency. I can see them bringing back Lynn if the price is right. They also have Alex Reyes coming back (probably around mid-season). Zac Gallen and Sandy Alcantara could also help out in '18.

Not totally sure who they would add as a potential FOR starter, or what they'd give up.

EDIT: Also had this to say.

Quote

I think they'll go after a closer, too, with Rosenthal not expected to pitch in '18. Should be an interesting offseason for them. Freeing up some $ in the Leake trade helps.

 

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13 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Reading between the lines of the Mozeliak interview...sounds like we might actually have an interesting offseason.

Been saying this for awhile now. Both him and Girsch have been pretty candid about roster overhaul forth coming and the most logistical/realistic timeframe is always the off-season when teams can actually focus on just the roster construction and contracts...

With Leake being dealt I fully expect us to shop for a SP or two. Don't think we're going down the Lance Lynn resign path because of the years, NTC and money commitment we'd have to give...

One name that I feel we'd look into would be Jake Odorizzi. We've always been linked to him. He's having a somewhat meh year and is into arbitration now, so Days might be willing to part at a lower return...

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Looking back through the comments, find it funny how bad some thought Mike Leake was comparatively to his deal, yet want to resign Lynn who's going to land a 5+ year, 115+ million deal...

That's going to be a bad contract in 2 years. He's a good bottom end #2 /high end #3 type, but he's going to regress hard and fast in the next deal. He relies on the FB way too much (throws at almost an 80% clip over his career)...

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4 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Been saying this for awhile now. Both him and Girsch have been pretty candid about roster overhaul forth coming and the most logistical/realistic timeframe is always the off-season when teams can actually focus on just the roster construction and contracts...

With Leake being dealt I fully expect us to shop for a SP or two. Don't think we're going down the Lance Lynn resign path because of the years, NTC and money commitment we'd have to give...

One name that I feel we'd look into would be Jake Odorizzi. We've always been linked to him. He's having a somewhat meh year and is into arbitration now, so Days might be willing to part at a lower return...

He's from the STL area, isn't he?  Which, of course, means he'd be more than willing to re-sign for a hometown discount, right? :)

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26 minutes ago, tttmikeb said:

He's from the STL area, isn't he?  Which, of course, means he'd be more than willing to re-sign for a hometown discount, right? :)

I think you're right, somewhere right across the river in Illinois. I think he would make a ton of sense for the rotation.  Still young but experienced,  has 2 years of control. He isn't a #1 or #2, but solid SP you could plug in anywhere and shouldn't cost an arm and leg...

Plus you'd think a move from the AL east to NL central would only help...

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Any guesses on who the big arms will be that we go for? 

 

Also, I know I've said this before but it would be perfect if Waino would accept a bullpen role. We're going to need bullpen arms in a bad way next year. Hopefully we see Hudson, Alcantara, and Tui step in and look good there. Maybe Junior Fernandez too. EIther way, our pen needs a shakeup.

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7 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I think you're right, somewhere right across the river in Illinois. I think he would make a ton of sense for the rotation.  Still young but experienced,  has 2 years of control. He isn't a #1 or #2, but solid SP you could plug in anywhere and shouldn't cost an arm and leg...

Plus you'd think a move from the AL east to NL central would only help...

Still think he's going to cost more than the Cardinals are willing to give up...especially if they plan on including Jack Flaherty and Luke Weaver in the rotation in the near future.  At that point, what do you start the package with?  I'm not giving up Carson Kelly for Jake Odorizzi that's for sure.  Figure he's a ~2.5 WAR SP over the next two seasons.

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3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Any guesses on who the big arms will be that we go for? 

 

Also, I know I've said this before but it would be perfect if Waino would accept a bullpen role. We're going to need bullpen arms in a bad way next year. Hopefully we see Hudson, Alcantara, and Tui step in and look good there. Maybe Junior Fernandez too. EIther way, our pen needs a shakeup.

I have nothing.  I'm skeptical that any big arms are going to be available, let alone that the Cardinals are going to have the pieces to move for one.  Right now, I think our rotation to start the season is Martinez, Wainwright, Wacha, Weaver, and Reyes/Flaherty.  Based on Mozeliak's comments, I think they're very high on their young SP in the AAA/AA levels right now.

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  • CWood21 changed the title to The STL Cardinals Thread - New Season, Same Old Cardinals?

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