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The STL Cardinals Thread - Gorman & Liberatore Debuts


CWood21
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20 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I know advanced stats maybe disagree with me, but he definitely doesn't pass my eye test. He walks too many people, he doesn't strike anyone out, he doesn't get consistent ground ball outs, he doesn't have filthy stuff. He just sort of is. He put up big win stats that year, but he just seems like it was a bit flukey. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm far from a analytics expert, and I'm hoping he's great. I just don't see it. I hope it's because he's young, but I remember the same arguments were levied against him in the minors too. I expect him to be a pretty average back of the rotation guy right now. He's got potential, I just don't expect much from him. 

I mean I disagree with almost all of this. But not every pitcher is an Ace, you need good solid pitcher to make up your rotation, you cant have every one of them making $12-$25m per year

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3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I know everyone is going to have their favorites here (Im suddenly partial to Marcus Semien) but I think Correa is the one we dont really have a chance at. Feels like hes going to be like Stanton, as far as where he wants to play

That's fine. I wasn't pegging us to him, but was just merely using his name as the example of the magnitude of guys potentially out there.

Sadly, my 1st choice went to the Dodgers at the deadline and won't be an option any longer (Trea Turner). I could see the guy he's bumping out - Corey Seager being a legit target.

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It's time to put the Max Scherzer interest to bed IMO. When he went to the Dodgers, it was the worst possible thing that could've happened on that front. 

His wife, who is very influential in his decisions wants to be on the 'coast' and Max himself said that if he was dealt at the deadline, he wanted to go somewhere where he could potentially play in 2022 and beyond. 

The Dodgers aren't getting Trevor Bauer back and might be able to void his deal. They have the money to re-sign Max and he's been lights pout since he arrived there. I don't see him leaving. 

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33 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

That's fine. I wasn't pegging us to him, but was just merely using his name as the example of the magnitude of guys potentially out there.

Sadly, my 1st choice went to the Dodgers at the deadline and won't be an option any longer (Trea Turner). I could see the guy he's bumping out - Corey Seager being a legit target.

I dont know if we were going to trade for another big one, that would have been nearly depleting the farm system

I do think the Cardinals preference is Corey Seager, Ive heard some things that they have liked him for a long tim. But its going to be high stakes bidding for him. 

I also think its obvious that Arenado's preference would be Trevor Story, and I wouldnt be mad at that at all, But I do worry as hes going to be 29, that we could end up with a bad balck half of a huge contract

Ive called my shot with Correa already, that he will be a Stanton and force his way to a big market

Seems like the MEts will do almost anything to keep Javy Baez, and not sure hed come here anyway with how beloved a Cub he is

And the last one is Marcus Simien, who was also forgotten last year as well. But that power is quite appealing (especially if we pull the fences in a bit this offseason) and he'll be going on 32 during the '22 season, which will likely limit the length of his deal, which I would like alot.

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

It's time to put the Max Scherzer interest to bed IMO. When he went to the Dodgers, it was the worst possible thing that could've happened on that front. 

I dont think it mattered where he was traded, he is going to look at all his option this offseason. If St Louis can give him the best situation, he'll take it. If thats the Dodgers, he'll stay there. He also at one point said he wouldnt approve a trade unless he got an extension with it, and that didnt happen either.

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It’s crazy to me that we’re talking spending big on a SS. DeJong seemed legit for a decent of time. I thought we had a guy that would be in the conversation with Seager, Correa, and the like. He had such a weird trajectory. Poor fielder, but good stick in the minors, then gets to the pros and is somehow a good fielder and a good hitter. Now he just flat out can’t hit. 

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8 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

It’s crazy to me that we’re talking spending big on a SS. DeJong seemed legit for a decent of time. I thought we had a guy that would be in the conversation with Seager, Correa, and the like. He had such a weird trajectory. Poor fielder, but good stick in the minors, then gets to the pros and is somehow a good fielder and a good hitter. Now he just flat out can’t hit. 

DeJong had a really good rookie season back in 2017 but ever since then he hasn’t been good. And in the past 2 seasons he’s been kinda awful. But I know What you mean, after that rookie year I thought he was going to be a really nice piece for the lineup. 

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The defense has been phenomenal during this 10 game winning streak! 

Who are we rooting to play in the WC game? I would Of said the Giants, but after thinking it over….just give me the Dodgers. I think We have a better chance at San Fran in a 5 game series. 

And anything can happen in a 1 game elimination. 

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17 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I dont know if we were going to trade for another big one, that would have been nearly depleting the farm system

I do think the Cardinals preference is Corey Seager, Ive heard some things that they have liked him for a long tim. But its going to be high stakes bidding for him. 

I also think its obvious that Arenado's preference would be Trevor Story, and I wouldnt be mad at that at all, But I do worry as hes going to be 29, that we could end up with a bad balck half of a huge contract

Ive called my shot with Correa already, that he will be a Stanton and force his way to a big market

Seems like the MEts will do almost anything to keep Javy Baez, and not sure hed come here anyway with how beloved a Cub he is

And the last one is Marcus Simien, who was also forgotten last year as well. But that power is quite appealing (especially if we pull the fences in a bit this offseason) and he'll be going on 32 during the '22 season, which will likely limit the length of his deal, which I would like alot.

I dont think it mattered where he was traded, he is going to look at all his option this offseason. If St Louis can give him the best situation, he'll take it. If thats the Dodgers, he'll stay there. He also at one point said he wouldnt approve a trade unless he got an extension with it, and that didnt happen either.

I'm very curious to see how many of these SS options get connected to us and other teams out of the blue as we move along. I've heard some rumors on Correa that he is really close with Tigers manager AJ Hinch from their time together and that Detroit may make a hard push for him. I've heard Story prefers to play closer to his home and that the Rangers may have the upperhand because of this. Heard Simien and Toronto have a good chance to work out a multi-year deal because it's been a great fit for both sides. 

The Seager connection makes a ton of sense, but as you eluded to, if the market falls out on some of these other guys, you're going to be in a bidding war on Seager and I don't think we win that. 

If that came to fruition, I could definitely see us shifting our focus to other areas to add an impact bat (i.e. the DH spot), or pushing the trade front.

As far as Scherzer, I mean it's hard to get a better situation than LA for him. I know everyone thinks we can draw him with the hometown thing, but I just don't see it. I think it's less than 10% chance he doesn't resign with Dodgers. People close to his party say his wife is going to have a big influence in where he finishes his career (assuming they have choices, which he will) and she is a 'coast' oriented person and activist. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said:

The defense has been phenomenal during this 10 game winning streak! 

Who are we rooting to play in the WC game? I would Of said the Giants, but after thinking it over….just give me the Dodgers. I think We have a better chance at San Fran in a 5 game series. 

And anything can happen in a 1 game elimination. 

If I have my choice, I want no part of Max Scherzer or Walker Buehler in a 1 game elimination. I'd rather face any of the Giants staff in this scenario. 

Plus, we've fared quite well against the Giants this year already. 

Edited by kgarrett12486
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33 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

As far as Scherzer, I mean it's hard to get a better situation than LA for him. I know everyone thinks we can draw him with the hometown thing, but I just don't see it. I think it's less than 10% chance he doesn't resign with Dodgers. People close to his party say his wife is going to have a big influence in where he finishes his career (assuming they have choices, which he will) and she is a 'coast' oriented person and activist.

We hear this stuff every time, from players in all sports. But what it comes down to is A) Money; Total and AAV B) Situation; Roster and championship chances, and then maybe C) Miscellaneous; like home town and spouse/family stuff as a tiebreaker

I also think its a huge assumption about Bauer and his contract, its not as simple as they can just let him go and be off the hook for the moneyu. If that were the case they would have already 

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On 9/20/2021 at 2:12 PM, kgarrett12486 said:

If Edmundo Sosa continues this torrid approach at plate throughout the rest of season/playoffs are you all comfortable with us going into ST with him as the starting SS? 

This is the big debate all over media right now. I'd say if you're not going to go out and try to get one of these premier FA SS that could be available (whether it's via FA or trade) and you want to keep Sosa there, then you better be getting a legit #1 type starter to pair with Flaherty, or signing an big-time impact DH bat. 

We're not getting one of the premier FA shortstops.

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1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

We hear this stuff every time, from players in all sports. But what it comes down to is A) Money; Total and AAV B) Situation; Roster and championship chances, and then maybe C) Miscellaneous; like home town and spouse/family stuff as a tiebreaker

I also think its a huge assumption about Bauer and his contract, its not as simple as they can just let him go and be off the hook for the moneyu. If that were the case they would have already 

I agree with you that A,B and C are the three main things players consider when they're looking at a long-term deal. However, where I disagree is that you can say A and B have higher priority to all vs. C. it's truly a case/case basis, but I would tend to lean that A,B are more important to younger guys who haven't made those significant deals yet and have several more years of earning power. 

A guy like Shcerzer, who's already made a ton of money and is on the down side of his career, it may be more important to him to be in a good situation to win and a situation where he doesn't have to uproot his family (again). I mean, we saw that 1st hand here with a guy like Wainwright. He had better offer money wise from the Padres per the report and was seriously considering it (per Wainwright), but at end of day he was comfortable here and so was his family. 

I mean in looking at it from Scherzer's vantage point, you're not going to be in a better spot to potentially contend for WS title than the Dodgers, who are built to win now and into the future. They also have the financial backing to basically give you/match the same contract anyone else can put out there if they want to. 

The Bauer situation is  complicated by time. It's the fact that the MLB has to wait for the legal process to play out and then Dodger have to wait for the MLB investigation to conclude/decision. I think it's safe to say that if he is found guilty in the legality, the MLB will follow suit in how they find him. If that is the case, I have no doubt the Dodgers will look to use the clauses in personal conduct to void his deal. It may end up being litigated, but that won't deter the Dodgers from spending money into the future. I'd expect it to come to a settlement outside of baseball not affecting their on field payroll. Usually how these matters play out in Corporate world. 

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2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

We're not getting one of the premier FA shortstops.

Why would you say that?

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I agree with you that A,B and C are the three main things players consider when they're looking at a long-term deal. However, where I disagree is that you can say A and B have higher priority to all vs. C. it's truly a case/case basis, but I would tend to lean that A,B are more important to younger guys who haven't made those significant deals yet and have several more years of earning power. 

Its always A & B, and thats it. Doesnt matter who it is or where in their career. Anyone who can have control of where they go, is going to maximize Money & Winning every single time. Anything else is just filler to make themselves look better. Dont be naive 

Edited by StLunatic88
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  • CWood21 changed the title to The STL Cardinals Thread - Gorman & Liberatore Debuts

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