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The STL Cardinals Thread - Is It The Offseason Yet?


CWood21

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34 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Why? What makes you believe we would guarantee playing time to any outfielder at this point?

I'm saying why would we pay someone big money for them to be a bench piece.  That's just not how the Cardinals spend their money.

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I'm saying why would we pay someone big money for them to be a bench piece.  That's just not how the Cardinals spend their money.

We were looking to upgrade the Lineup, and we currently are spending next to zero dollars in the OF/DH. 

But with their belief in Carlson, their hope for O'Neill, and Walker coming up soon, Im sure we wouldnt be promising any OF playing time. 

But for one year, we would definitely pay some money, its the long term commitment we wont do very often

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33 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Anyone else curious to see how this potential BSN bankruptcy affects our willingness to spend over the next few years?

I think we already saw it this offseason. Possibly even last. This situation has had the writing on the wall for a while now.

That Billion dollars over the 15 years was really the only thing bringing us up to the bottom of the upper class in spending for all of baseball. 

Without it, we are going to slide right back to the middle, until we find another (more stable) TV resolution, which we cant expect to come at this point with where the dollars/eyeballs for baseball are.

Pay our few stars, fill in the rest with the farm system and some solid vets. Its back to the 2012-2017 model

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On 2/2/2023 at 1:37 PM, StLunatic88 said:

Pay our few stars, fill in the rest with the farm system and some solid vets. Its back to the 2012-2017 model

Ive heard alot of chatter lately (not here obviously), complaining about the payroll and/or how Mo goes about his business

I just want to share alittle bit. Since we won the World Series, our payrolls have ranked (I believe) as follows in all the majors; 8, 12, 14, 12, 10, 14, 10, 7, 10, 10, 13 (currently)

That is an average of 11th in the league (highest 7th, lowest 14th) all while being the 23rd TV market in Baseball. Sorry, but that is financially exceeding expectations. I can go through the numbers if you'd like, but we are spending more per market size than the Mets are with their record setting payroll (yes i halved the NY market to use some crude numbers). I am aware that it is not apples to apples with revenue generation, but it is for sure a factor.

Also, while looking into the future, we currently have 5 guys under contract for 2024 (Goldschmidt, Arenado, Contreras, Matz, Gallegos) plus DeJong's $2m buyout, and we are already at $88m on the Payroll, before any Arbitration Cases (includes Dak & TON on Arb 3, and Edman & Helsley on Arb 2) 

If you want to try for a conversation about dollar allocation? Maybe I'll listen to it, but pretending we dont spend enough, is just asinine by this spoiled fan base 

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20 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Ive heard alot of chatter lately (not here obviously), complaining about the payroll and/or how Mo goes about his business

I just want to share alittle bit. Since we won the World Series, our payrolls have ranked (I believe) as follows in all the majors; 8, 12, 14, 12, 10, 14, 10, 7, 10, 10, 13 (currently)

That is an average of 11th in the league (highest 7th, lowest 14th) all while being the 23rd TV market in Baseball. Sorry, but that is financially exceeding expectations. I can go through the numbers if you'd like, but we are spending more per market size than the Mets are with their record setting payroll (yes i halved the NY market to use some crude numbers). I am aware that it is not apples to apples with revenue generation, but it is for sure a factor.

Also, while looking into the future, we currently have 5 guys under contract for 2024 (Goldschmidt, Arenado, Contreras, Matz, Gallegos) plus DeJong's $2m buyout, and we are already at $88m on the Payroll, before any Arbitration Cases (includes Dak & TON on Arb 3, and Edman & Helsley on Arb 2) 

If you want to try for a conversation about dollar allocation? Maybe I'll listen to it, but pretending we dont spend enough, is just asinine by this spoiled fan base 

Have never really bought into that argument. This FO has always shown the propensity go go out and target the guys they feel fit the roster/clubhouse mold whether that is via FA or trade. Even the superstar FA's - they've never been able to land one, but doesn't mean they haven't been close or made better offers. I can't fault them for that.

Like you said and the numbers dictate, they spend above the means when they see value in doing so. The current model the employ of spending/acquiring the pieces needed from surplus of prospect/roster talent and then drafting/developing to refill the pipeline and plug in those supplemental pieces has shown to be an effective model and is what has kept them more competitive consistently than almost any other franchise in baseball the last decade plus. 

I still go back to the Oscar Taveras tragedy, which set this FO back insurmountably IMO. There have been very few other franchises (guess the Marlins would be the only true comparison off the top of my head) that have had to deal with the loss of a potential superstar that was being counted on to be a core member of your team under cost control for the foreseeable future. Even the small market teams, when their superstars get to be arb eligible, are usually able to turn that player into multiple assets for the future, or worst case get a comp pick when they leave. We got absolutely nothing due to the circumstances and yet still were able to pivot and keep this team in playoffs and didn't have to sacrifice the future to do so.  

The only saving grace is that this argument about not spending isn't just relegated to Cardinal fans, it's pretty much every casual fan of every fanbase out there. I listen to MLB network a lot and it's amazing to hear Dodgers fans talk about how cheap their FO is this offseason and why they've only won 1 WS in this window.  

Edited by kgarrett12486
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23 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I know it's extremely early, but first reports out of ST are that TON is almost exclusively seeing his defensive work in CF. 

They were doing the same thing with Walker last year in the minors when he officially switched to the OF

I think they just want everyone to get reps there, to see if we can have a usable CF regardless of the OF rotation that day

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22 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

They were doing the same thing with Walker last year in the minors when he officially switched to the OF

I think they just want everyone to get reps there, to see if we can have a usable CF regardless of the OF rotation that day

Yep, I think you're right reading more into it. Sounds like all (3) of Carlson, Nootbar and O'Neill could see a decent chunk of CF at some point this season. 

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