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The STL Cardinals Thread - Looking For Pitching, Any Pitchers


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Braves fan from Atlanta here. Moved to STL last October. Drive past the stadium twice a day everyday. Such a cool view from the highway. I have been to one Cards game a few years ago and Busch Stadium blew me away. We sat pretty high up but it might have been the coolest baseball stadium that I have been to. Before Covid, my office building was a block away from the stadium and I was looking forward to catching a bunch of Cards games this year. Ballpark Village is a lot of fun too. Of course I move to a new city right before a global pandemic hits... 

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On 11/14/2020 at 1:04 PM, StLunatic88 said:

Glad to see no one here decided to read too much into the Heineman signing (yet...)

Nah.  Reasonable depth move, that's all.  Makes sense.  

Guys here are pretty reasonable in my experience.  I do have to laugh when I read comments on Twitter or Facebook about moves like this.  Geniuses out there who apparently think a move like signing Heineman is all the team will do this offseason, or that the FO thinks this is the move that puts them over the top.  Brilliant.

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On 11/15/2020 at 12:47 AM, coors said:

Braves fan from Atlanta here. Moved to STL last October. Drive past the stadium twice a day everyday. Such a cool view from the highway. I have been to one Cards game a few years ago and Busch Stadium blew me away. We sat pretty high up but it might have been the coolest baseball stadium that I have been to. Before Covid, my office building was a block away from the stadium and I was looking forward to catching a bunch of Cards games this year. Ballpark Village is a lot of fun too. Of course I move to a new city right before a global pandemic hits... 

Welcome to STL!  We're all hoping we can get to some Cards games soon! :)

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So Im going to take a crack at what this offseason might look like. I used to think we would just go with status quo and wait for all the bad contracts to fall off after 2021. Which I think we are still waiting for, but I also thought that included bringing everyone back for a farewell tour. But after a few conversations Ive had, it dawned on me; What good is a farewell tour if you cant cash in at the gate because of it? Which makes me think we are going to let the two Cardinals legends go ring/money chase elsewhere. And now with the report that Wong turned our offer down, we probably just need to turn our attention elsewhere and go bargain hunting. Now that doesnt mean not spending any money at all, it just means spending that money we do have for '21 wisely, and possibly spreading more of it out over future years that will hopefully stabilize

(Remember, this is what I think that DeWitt + Mo $ Co. will do this offseason, not a MLB The Show offseason that I would put together)

 

Free Agent Signings

Alex Avila - Backup Catcher 

Contract: 1 Year  - $2.75m 

  • So we finally move on from Molina, he gets that guaranteed 2nd year from a desperate contender, now thats a Franchise changer. So give the reigns over to Knizner, we know he has shown flashes that impress, and now that hes completely out of the Molina shadow, he can be a really steady hand back there. And he should even be able to give atleast the production at the plate we have seen from Yadi in the past 2 seasons. But as he grows into that Starting Catcher role, we need a Backup who can still come in and give some support, and from what Ive seen from Knizner, Id lean more to the offensive side for that player. I like Avila because he gives us 2 things, a Lefty bat off the bench, and some Pop, two things we really need more of. His OPB isnt all that bad either. Knizner should be playing atleast 100 games, but more like 125 games atleast. That leaves somewhere around 40-60 games for Avila, plus the pinch hitting. That falls in line with what he has put up in the past few years, and while he isnt a defensive wizard lie a Flowers, he has still been a really good backstop throughout his career, and likely has a thing or two he can help/teach Knizer in his time here. 

Chris Archer - Starting Pitcher

Contract: 2 year - $22m (Max value - Incentive Laden Deal with a 2nd Year Mutual Option)

  1. Y1 -> $4m guaranteed + $6m in incentives ($1m each for 20/25/30 Starts Made, $1m for AS, $1m for Playoffs, $1m for CY)
  2. Y2 -> $12m ($3m Team Option Buyout/$1m Player Option Buyout)
  • It feels like we have constantly been interested in Archer for the past 3 or 4 years. And while this isnt the most ideal time to be getting in the Archer business (Thoracic Outlet Syndrome surgery in last years Spring Training) this is the type of gamble we need to take. Its basically a $5m lottery ticket. If he is just average, we get out of this deal just throwing $5-7m at a midline starter and then move on. But if he bounces back to somewhere near his old self, we probably get a Top line starter for $8m this year. And a possible middle of the road outcome, if 2022 market is unsure, we could have a really solid starter for a couple of years for an $10m AAV. If we can pull off a deal like this, I cant see a downside, definitely not a disastrous outcome to this move. These are the type of savvy moves we will need to go for with our limited spending this offseason.

Ha-Seong Kim - Infielder

Contract: 6 year $50m (plus posting fees)

  1. 4 years $25m guaranteed (20% = $5m in 2021) Y1-$4m, Y2-$6, Y3-$7m, Y4-$8m
  2. 5th year option for $11m (17.5% = $1.925m in 2025)
  3. 6th year option for $14m (17.5% = $2.45m in 2026)
  • The Cardinals have been all over the Korean market in the past few years (Kim, Mikolas, Oh) and I dont think it will be any different here. Some of the projection for HSK are amazing, and frankly alittle unbelievable. Some saying he should be a perennial All Star providing 4-5 WAR per year, but there is a very different floor of a Super Utility Infielder. I dont think he ends up being either one of those, and is likely falling somewhere in the middle (very Paul DeJong like in my mind) that I think this contrac sis very fair for and give us some great value early on. And using the Team Options for the 5th and 6th year are more for the timing of the payouts to his Korean team. They only get paid on the guaranteed dollars. So using the options in the last few seasons push our payments out of 2021 where they are most worried about cash flow.As far as on the field, HSK looks like he could be a major impact right out the gate. Even if its a full rotation at 2B/3B with Carp/Edman/HSK he should be getting regular playing time. But I feel like he could end up pushing Carp to a bench bat pretty quickly. And as we move forward, the flexibility of DeJong and Kim should allow us to fit whatever Free Agent/Prospect presents themselves into the team makeup to continue to improve.

 

Roster/Lineup

  1. Tommy Edman - 2B
  2. Dylan Carlson - LF
  3. Paul Goldschmidt - 1B
  4. Paul DeJong - SS
  5. Dexter Fowler - RF
  6. Matt Carpenter - 3B
  7. Andrew Knizner - C
  8. Harrison Bader - CF
  9. Starter - P

(Disclaimer, this is not what I want, its just wat Id assume they would start the season with. I would hope HSK pushes Carp out of the lineup, and TON should also push the less productive of Bader/Fowler out of the lineup as well, that would really change the dynamics of this lineup f those two are producing)

Bench: Ha-Seong Kim - INF, Tyler O'Neill - OF, Alex Avila - C, Rangel Ravelo - UTL

  1. Jack Flaherty - SP
  2. Kwang-hyun Kim - SP
  3. Alexander Reyes - SP
  4. Chris Archer - SP
  5. Carlos Martinez - SP

(Assuming that Miles Mikolas is not ready for the start of the season, if he is, Carlos is either traded or moved to the BP)

Bullpen: Andrew Miller, Jordan Hicks, Johon Brebbia, Genesis Cabrerra, Giovanny Gallegos, Austin Gomber, Seth Elledge, Ryan Helsley, Jake Woodford

(honestly it doesnt matter who I project to be in here, the big things are that we likely DFA Gant to save money, and that we dont sign any relievers because we have so much arm talent already on the 40 man)

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know this isn't the proper thread, but I'll be moving to Peoria for a new job. I was wondering if anyone had any experience renting in the city and any places to avoid. I hear East Peoria is an up and coming part of the city. It looks like most places have laundry facilities in the buildings. If I could avoid that, that would be ideal. My set is only 3 years old.

Thank for any advice!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Cardinals unsurprisingly took nobody in the ML portion of the Rule V draft.  But they did draft two guys in the AAA portion.  They took LHP Garrett Williams from the Angels.  They also lost RHP Ronnie Williams to the Giants and Jordan Blink to the Rays.

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With the Mets signing McCann and the Yankees likely keeping Sanchez another year, it's sounding more probable Yadi will be back...

Even with him bulking at our offer supposedly. I just don't see where he's going to get the money and playing time he's looking for on a contender anymore...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Heard some rumors of renewed interest in D-Backs OF David Peralta. It would fall into that cash neutral trade category, which Mo has referenced for this off-season...

He was drafted by us and was with the organization until 2009. I could see this one happening...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seeing a lot of hot takes about the Flaherty numbers, not sure why, we all knew it was going to get to this point. I’m honestly a little surprised that the gap wasn’t bigger than this. 

But it has never been more clear that this franchise has some weird blind spot when it comes to Bader. $2m just seems crazy on his first arb for what his actual production has been

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  • 2 weeks later...
23 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said:

Do you guys think the Cardinals will make a big splash next year in free agency (class is loaded) or are you expecting more of the same? 

Be nice to get Trevor Story! 

I hope so, but it's going to depend on what happens with this year on the field and on the books...

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And as quickly as I post a rumor on Waino, we strike a deal...

Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Cardinals are bringing back right-handed pitcher Adam Wainwright. 

Heyman writes that it's believed to be a one-year deal that will pay the right-hander $8 million.

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1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

And as quickly as I post a rumor on Waino, we strike a deal...

Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Cardinals are bringing back right-handed pitcher Adam Wainwright. 

Heyman writes that it's believed to be a one-year deal that will pay the right-hander $8 million.

If nothing else, I'm glad I don't have to root for him with another franchise.

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