StLunatic88 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: My #1 priority if I'm Mo is to unload Fowler any way possible. I'd start trading from the glut of OF players we have. O'Neil, Bader, Randy, and Martinez could all move. Only one of Bader and Randy need to be here. I'd be looking to start Carlson as one of my COF next year. I'd give Ozuna the QO. If he walks, cool. If he takes it, cool. I'd re-sign Waino. I'd stretch out Helsley and let him compete for a spot. I'd look at maybe trying to move Dakota Hudson for some legit players. I'd try to stretch out Carlos. I'd try to make Carpenter a super-sub. I'd maybe see what we could get for Wong. Two things here; 1. They see Bader as one of the best defensive CFs out there, so they will hang onto him to see if he can turn the hitting arounf (his trade value has never been lower) 2. Carlson is not ready for the Majors. So to plan for him as a Starting COF out of Spring Training is ridiculous. I wouldnt plan on seeing him on the 25 man roster any time in 2020 unless its the perfect storm. They dont want to start his clock while we are still sorting though this OF mess, its just the business side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 31 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Two things here; 1. They see Bader as one of the best defensive CFs out there, so they will hang onto him to see if he can turn the hitting arounf (his trade value has never been lower) 2. Carlson is not ready for the Majors. So to plan for him as a Starting COF out of Spring Training is ridiculous. I wouldnt plan on seeing him on the 25 man roster any time in 2020 unless its the perfect storm. They dont want to start his clock while we are still sorting though this OF mess, its just the business side. I disagree with this. He's ready, it's just a matter of if the Cards want to start his clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: I disagree with this. He's ready, it's just a matter of if the Cards want to start his clock. I know everyone is creaming their jeans over him, but less than 100 Plate Appearances at AAA isnt enough to actually say hes ready Kris Bryant, while 2 years older, had ~300 Plate Appearances at AAA the year before they held him back a few weeks to not start his clock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said: On average, yes the $160-$180m range is where we will sit at as a franchise. But with the new regional TV deal kicked in, they have plenty of money to bite the bullet, look at the 2 sunk cost contracts we have (Fowler and Carpenter) and say, we will push that up to the $190+ range for a year or two till we get out of those. After next year we shed almost $40m in current contracts (Yadi, Miller, Cecil) and the year after that we finally clear Carps extension (very unlikely to vest) and Fowler for another $35m. And on top of those two, we can get out of Carlos' deal if he is still not living up to his value in 2 years (about $12m more) If they are really trying to win, they could plan it out, give an extra $15m to 2020, while lowering their plans by $5m or so the next couple of years to make up for it. (this is the exact situation that people complain about DeWitt, lets see if he continues to disappoint) I don't think legitimate cash flow has ever been in question. Forbes had them as the 7th most valuable franchise back in April, so money shouldn't be an issue. The problem is the Cardinals have zero desire to play anywhere near the luxury tax, and quite frankly I don't blame them. The luxury tax is a hard crunch. We're even seeing the Red Sox and Yankees actively looking to avoid the luxury tax. That's two of three most valuable franchises actively avoiding the luxury tax. The luxury tax is $208M, but you'd have to figure the Cardinals would want some cushion for midseason additions. So even then, you're probably looking at a payroll max of $200M. $180M seems like a fairly reasonable request. The bigger issue is I'm looking at this FA class, and which one of the guys aren't going to cost a fortune and might be a semi-reasonable deal? I'd love have Gerrit Cole, but someone's going to throw crazy money at him. Anthony Rendon would be nice to have as well, but again that's going to cost a fortune. Beyond that? I think Dallas Kuechel would be someone worth looking at if the money doesn't get crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I think we should be scouring the trade market more than the FA market. I agree with @CWood21 I think Kuechel would be an ok get. I'm kind of ok with our rotation as it is now, though. Jack, Dak, Mikolas, Waino, competition between Helsley, Carlos, Gomber, Ponce. Not terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: I think we should be scouring the trade market more than the FA market. I agree with @CWood21 I think Kuechel would be an ok get. I'm kind of ok with our rotation as it is now, though. Jack, Dak, Mikolas, Waino, competition between Helsley, Carlos, Gomber, Ponce. Not terrible. While I would be OK with it, Im not sure Waino is coming back. He was sooo close to retirement last year, and he may want to go out while respectable, and not completely implode as his last hurrah And on the other hand, Carlos should be expected to be a Starter at this point. Its ridiculous if he doesnt go into Spring Training as a starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 What's everyone's thoughts on Zack Wheeler? he's a guy hat we were at least rumored to be interested in at the deadline..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said: My #1 priority if I'm Mo is to unload Fowler any way possible. I'd start trading from the glut of OF players we have. O'Neil, Bader, Randy, and Martinez could all move. Only one of Bader and Randy need to be here. I'd be looking to start Carlson as one of my COF next year. I'd give Ozuna the QO. If he walks, cool. If he takes it, cool. I'd re-sign Waino. I'd stretch out Helsley and let him compete for a spot. I'd look at maybe trying to move Dakota Hudson for some legit players. I'd try to stretch out Carlos. I'd try to make Carpenter a super-sub. I'd maybe see what we could get for Wong. If for no other reasons, the Cardinals should keep Dylan Carlson down in Memphis. Hell, I might even be tempted to stick him back at Springfield to see how he responds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: What's everyone's thoughts on Zack Wheeler? he's a guy hat we were at least rumored to be interested in at the deadline..... I believe I've seen the QO being potentially thrown his way. If that's the case, absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I think we should be scouring the trade market more than the FA market. I agree with @CWood21 I think Kuechel would be an ok get. I'm kind of ok with our rotation as it is now, though. Jack, Dak, Mikolas, Waino, competition between Helsley, Carlos, Gomber, Ponce. Not terrible. I don't want to be that guy, but our farm system is pretty bleak outside of Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman. You want someone who is more than a BOR starter, which one of them are you willing to deal? Mozeliak has pretty much already said that Carslon is off-limits, and Gorman probably isn't far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttitansfan4life Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 He Gone!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said: He Gone!!! IDK why we wouldn't even entertain the idea of resigning him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said: He Gone!!! Yep. The writing has been on the wall for a while now... If the Cardinals wanted to extend him, they would’ve made a formidable offer by now. They’ve always been aggressive in trying to lock up their own impending FAs they wanted back prior to them actually hitting the market... The fact that Ozuna came out and said he hadn’t heard anything from them is telling. I really think this organization held a grudge against him and his off-season workouts/rehab. Seems to have really rubbed them the wrong way... His horrendous September showing and his overall prolonged streakiness at the dish just cemented their decision IMO... Be curious to see how they plan to replace his production... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 This team needs to walk away from Adam Wainwright. I’m not giving him a 2 years and close to/above $30 million... The comeback story was cool and he was very good at home, but he’s a handicap to the rotation. His home/road splits are abysmal and it’s more than a 1 year sample size (he’s been on same pace last 3 years)... Time to cut the nostalgia string and not hand out another bad deal to a guy who’s been a hero in the past... Plenty of BOR free agent arms who can give you better production for similar/less cost. Not to mention the internal options they’re banking on bouncing back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Yep. The writing has been on the wall for a while now... If the Cardinals wanted to extend him, they would’ve made a formidable offer by now. They’ve always been aggressive in trying to lock up their own impending FAs they wanted back prior to them actually hitting the market... The fact that Ozuna came out and said he hadn’t heard anything from them is telling. I really think this organization held a grudge against him and his off-season workouts/rehab. Seems to have really rubbed them the wrong way... His horrendous September showing and his overall prolonged streakiness at the dish just cemented their decision IMO... Be curious to see how they plan to replace his production... Donaldson at 3B and Edman in the OF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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