ttitansfan4life Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) This organization is a joke and cheap as hell. Let Ozuna walk with a cheap contract but you extend a declining Carpenter and give a big contract to a bum in Fowler. Absolute joke Edited January 22, 2020 by ttitansfan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 34 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: Ozuna officially to the Braves for 1 year, $18 million. Looks like Thomas or O’Neil will be our starting LF on Opening Day. Not sure how FO is going to try to sell this to the fans. Couldn't match a 1 year deal for 500k more than the QO you extended? That's pathetic when you have a glaring hole in your lineup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: Not sure how FO is going to try to sell this to the fans. Couldn't match a 1 year deal for 500k more than the QO you extended? That's pathetic when you have a glaring hole in your lineup... It was clear from the start of the offseason they valued the draft pick more. I’m not to mad about it honestly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, ttitansfan4life said: This organization is a joke and cheap as hell. Let Ozuna walk with a cheap contract but you extend a declining Carpenter and give a big contract to a bum in Fowler. Absolute joke He must have pist them off so bad last off season that they had already moved on at that point. Otherwise, I don't know how you can justify not bringing him back on a 1 year deal for 500k more than the QO you extended him... Makes zero sense for a team with aspirations to at least make the NLCS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: It was clear from the start of the offseason they valued the draft pick more. I’m not to mad about it honestly. I wouldn't have been if he went out a signed a 3 year deal, but a 1 year deal was literally the best option for us lol... They value draft picks a little too much. This isn't a team in transition, they're a team expected to compete. This was a MOTO bat that walked. Plus, you just got a bonafide stud prospect in a trade... Edited January 22, 2020 by kgarrett12486 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: I wouldn't have been if he went out a signed a 3 year deal, but a 1 year deal was literally the best option for us lol... They value draft picks a little too much. This isn't a team in transition, they're a team expected to compete. This was a MOTO bat that walked. Plus, you just got a bonafide stud prospect in a trade... I just don't think it's that big of a loss. We should be able to replace him with a combination of players currently on the roster. And hope that Matt Carpenter doesn't suck again this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said: This organization is a joke and cheap as hell. Let Ozuna walk with a cheap contract but you extend a declining Carpenter and give a big contract to a bum in Fowler. Absolute joke A Joke? Cheap? Yes this team who has had One Single Losing Season THIS MILLENIUM, who has won 2 world series been to 2 others and been to 6 more Championship seriens in this span is a Joke. Thats half the time we make it to the Final 4 teams in baseball, and while the Red Sox have 4 WS in that span, and the Giants have 3, its only us and the Yankees that have multiple as well And as we sit today, we are in the Top 10 of payrolls in baseball, that Ozuna deal would have put us in the Top 5, all while hovering in the 19-22 range in terms of Market in the League. In what world is $18m a cheap deal? Palatable for a 1 year contract, sure, but if we have our eye set on a higher prize (and much more expensive) than Ozuna, then letting him walk is completely fine. You can be annoyed by the Fowler deal, you can be pissed about the Carpenter extension, I know I am, but those tow things alone (not to mention GoldSchmidt, Yadi, Mikolas, Martinez, etc) show that this team isnt Cheap Catcher - 2nd largest contract in Baseball (plus another $2m for our backup) 1st base - 3nd largest contract in Baseball 2nd base - 7th largest contract in Baseball 3rd base - 8th largest contract in Baseball SS - This is where we are getting a deal, but we locked him up early, so smart move for us OF - We are already paying the 14th largest contract, and Ozuna would have been a Top 10 contract ontop of that Pitchers - Carlos and Mikolas are somewhere around the #25 and #28 largest contracts for Starters No wonder most of the league canst stand our fan base, Constantly acting like spoiled little brats Lets just stop with all that nonsense Edited January 22, 2020 by StLunatic88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 The lineup looks weak right now but it shouldn’t be that hard to replace Ozuna and it definitely won’t be hard to replace him defensively. And Pitching, defense and good base running is how we’re going to win this year. My Opening Day lineup.... 1. Dexter Fowler RF - As much as people don’t want this to happen, it’s going to happen. Dexter is going to get way to much playing time and we’re just going to have to embrace the suck. 2. Matt Carpenter 3B - I know a lot of us want to see Edman grab this spot, but Shildt and the Cardinals were 100% behind Dexter last year after a god awful 2018 season, I don’t see them kicking Carp to the bench. And of course with both these guys, money talks. 3. Paul Goldschmidt 1B - Obvious. 4. Paul DeJong SS - I’m really hoping DeJong takes his game to the next level. It seems like he’s progressed every year he’s been in the Majors and now it’s time for him to be a bit more consistent at the plate. 5. Yadier Molina C - This is another obvious spot IMO. 6. Lane Thomas LF - Hoping Thomas has a good Spring and it’s clear from Opening Day who the pick is in Left. I think he’s a much better player than O’Neil is and I think he’ll be more consistent at the plate. 7. Kolten Wong 2B 8. Harrison Bader CF 9. Jack Flaherty P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: Not sure how FO is going to try to sell this to the fans. Couldn't match a 1 year deal for 500k more than the QO you extended? That's pathetic when you have a glaring hole in your lineup... He was never going to accept that QO, players and their agents just arent wired like that. That was the small gamble we took in order to set ourselves up for a draft pick, one that we sorely need to replenish our farm system. I like Ozuna more than many people around here. But even I predicted that he wouldnt get this money. He is just not that dynamic of a player. He clearly showed that he wasnt that Gold Glover/Silver Slugger player like that year he showed in Miami. He was always streaky, and we couldnt count on him to be a slump breaker for this offense. He is still a very good player, but if the best he could do was a last minute, one year deal from the Braves after they lost out on Donaldson, then there clearly wasnt much more out there for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 The Cardinals now have 5 picks in the top 101 selections (21, 55, 64, 71, 101). And this Draft class is supposed to be really good. Im excited to see what this farm system looks like in a year or two. Homegrown talent is always the best way to consistently win in this league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: My Opening Day lineup.... Couple of thoughts; First, I dont think Carpenter gets back that high in the lineup until he actually earns it. And the reasoning is two fold, obviously he was SOOO bad last year that you cant risk him staying like that and completely stalling the offense out of the gate, but ontop of that, you cannot risk him somehow hitting his plate appearances incentives to kick in that 2022 money. In an awful year that he only appeared in 129 games, he still had nearly 500 Plate Appearances. If he hits 1100 over the next 2 years his 2022 number goes from a $2m buyout to $18.5m fully guaranteed. You just cant let that happen unless he is miraculously back to his MVP run And secondly, I think they are going to give O'Neill every opportunity to be the opening day LF. He has the Pop that not many else on this roster do, and as much as I like Thomas, he is more of what we are already running out there. Now O'Neill may have a short leash, but he will likely get the first crack. I think, unless we see another trade happen, the Opening Day Lineup looks like this Fowler RF Wong 2B Goldschmidt 1B DeJong SS Molina C Carpenter 3B O'Neill LF Bader CF Pitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: It was clear from the start of the offseason they valued the draft pick more. I’m not to mad about it honestly. Honestly, I think it was a mutual thing. I think the Cardinals didn't feel any pressure to re-sign Ozuna. I think they had interest in re-signing him, but only on their terms. Ozuna was clearly looking for a certain minimum, and when he didn't he essentially signed the QO with the Braves. The Cardinals get the pick, and the Cardinals keep the spot warm for Dylan Carlson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Baseball America came out with their top 100 prospects. 10. Dylan Carlson 42. Matt Liberatore 55. Nolan Gorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: I just don't think it's that big of a loss. We should be able to replace him with a combination of players currently on the roster. And hope that Matt Carpenter doesn't suck again this year. Guess we'll find out. Ozuna's numbers last year didn't translate to probably what they should have. He had some bad luck... He had better or similar analytic numbers to Donaldson in term of advanced batting stats last year (exit velocity, hard contact rate, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: He was never going to accept that QO, players and their agents just arent wired like that. That was the small gamble we took in order to set ourselves up for a draft pick, one that we sorely need to replenish our farm system. I like Ozuna more than many people around here. But even I predicted that he wouldnt get this money. He is just not that dynamic of a player. He clearly showed that he wasnt that Gold Glover/Silver Slugger player like that year he showed in Miami. He was always streaky, and we couldnt count on him to be a slump breaker for this offense. He is still a very good player, but if the best he could do was a last minute, one year deal from the Braves after they lost out on Donaldson, then there clearly wasnt much more out there for him. No doubt, we all knew he wasn't going to accept the QO. We all knew why the Cards extended it... Honestly, I didn't expect him back. I thought he could get a 2-4 year deal somewhere else and we weren't going to be in on that with Carlson waiting in the wings... My gripe is that we essentially played this perfectly in that we slapped him with the QO, then sent him to market. When the market became defined, we should've pounced. I have a hard time believing that if we offered to match that deal he wouldn't be here instead. He wanted to be here... A 1 year deal was literally the best thing for us. We keep our MOTO bat to alleviate a giant hole in the lineup we now have. We keep our OF depth for possible other moves or injuries. We keep Carlson down and manipulate his clock... I get why we want the pick, but to the extent of worsening the current roster? This team is built to contend. We're not in transition. Like @holt_bruce81pointed out, it's not like we were hurting for picks in this draft prior to this, nevermind the fact we have 3 top 60 prospects. Our farm system isn't as stacked as it's been in previous years, but it's far from barren inside the top 10. It's on par or better than what you'd expect from a team that contends and finishes more near the end of the draft yearly than closer to the beginning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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