CWood21 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 9 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: -Like the Dee Gordon deal, we'e taking on more financially than we would keeping Wong, but I agree with your assessment that essentially Gordon is the better of the two. Pretty similar defensively, while Gordon has better speed/base stealing ability and will hit for better average with virtually same amount of power. I like it. My question is you have us getting Tazawa in the deal as well, but I don't see him in the BP listing? Does he not make the roster? Love that we're not just standing pat on the current BP... Honestly, that was a typo on my part. He was supposed to be in the bullpen, which means my payroll estimation is probably off. Add his salary to the payroll means it's probably closer to $165M, which is a bit higher than I was trying to go for. Probably could rework Arrieta and Nicasio's deals to make less in the first year, although I'm not a huge fan of backloading deals. 9 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: -As pretty much all of us have had, the Donaldson trade just needs to happen. Makes too much sense. I don't mind the package we give up at all, but I think TOR is gonna want another SP prospect (maybe not on the Flaherty level, but a guy like Alcantara or Fernandez) instead of Gyorko. They really don't need a replacement 3B for Donaldson long term, as they have Vlad Guerrero Jr. is a year or two away. They could use Gyorko as a stop gap, but I think it would depend on if they really plan to keep chugging along or retool... Don't really view Jedd Gyroko as having any real value, his stock pretty much plummeted in the second half of the season. I think they could use him as a serviceable 3B until Vlad Guerrero Jr. is ready. I think the Cardinals would probably be willing to kick another SP prospect on there, although I think they're reluctant to move Alcantara or Jordan Hicks. 9 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: -Really like the idea of Arrieta to help anchor the staff. I know we've shown interest as well and FO likes him. Man it would be hard to give a 32 year old though a 5 year, 33 million/year deal though... I think it's one of those situations where the Cardinals would be willing to pump that AAV in order to shave a year or two off the deal. There's little doubt in my mind that Arrieta could get 6 years, maybe even 7 years on the open market. But I don't think he's getting 6 or 7 years at $30M+ on the open market. The Cardinals offer him a bit more to keep it to 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I believe we attempted. He just wasnt really interested in going anywhere but LA I still wish we would have paid Josh Reddick rather than Dexter Fowler. We needed a CF in the worst way, and we had no way of knowing that Tommy Pham was going to play as well as he would have. Fowler was the right FA at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 15 hours ago, CWood21 said: We needed a CF in the worst way, and we had no way of knowing that Tommy Pham was going to play as well as he would have. Fowler was the right FA at the time. a couple things... Fowler was barely a CF, as proven throughout this year. Our internal options were always a better defensive option than Fowler (dont want to be that guym but I was beating the Tommy Pham drum since the middle of last season) And we needed a Bat more than anything. And yes Fowler is that, but we already had a leadoff bat, so why to force another similar asset into the lineup rather than a complimentary one.(i.e. Reddick) Not to mention we would have saved $3m annually, for one year less commitment, and one less albatross of a NTC (that we have been handing out like candy) for a player a year younger. I understood the Fowler signing when we got him, I didnt like it though. its was just more of what we already had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) I kind of like the Fowler we have. Especially if he accepts the "demotion" to LF. He seems like kind of an aged Carl Crawford(in a good way). Fairly speedy, good baserunning, 15-20 dingers. That's a nice piece to a winning team. Most likely not worth the money and NTC but we could certainly do worse. I may be off base with this, but it seems like his game should be able to age well. Edited October 17, 2017 by MOSteelers56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 6 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Quote Fowler was barely a CF, as proven throughout this year. Our internal options were always a better defensive option than Fowler (dont want to be that guym but I was beating the Tommy Pham drum since the middle of last season) That's purely hindsight though now, as even if someone was the biggest Tommy Pham advocate, you can't sit here and say you expected him to be the everyday CF on this team given his injury history. Reality was this team needed not just a CF option, but wanted another high OBP and athletic player that could hit at the top of the order. Is Tommy Pham the better CF option heading into 2018. Obviously. Could you have said this heading into 2017. Absolutely not. Quote And we needed a Bat more than anything. And yes Fowler is that, but we already had a leadoff bat, so why to force another similar asset into the lineup rather than a complimentary one.(i.e. Reddick) TBF though, we were looking to move Carp out of that role and into the 3 spot, as his bat/production seemed like a good transition and we needed to replace production there... So adding Fowler as the lead off guy made a lot of sense on paper. Don't think anyone expected Carp to flop that badly as the #3... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: I kind of like the Fowler we have. Especially if he accepts the "demotion" to LF. He seems like kind of an aged Carl Crawford(in a good way). Fairly speedy, good baserunning, 15-20 dingers. That's a nice piece to a winning team. Most likely not worth the money and NTC but we could certainly do worse. I may be off base with this, but it seems like his game should be able to age well. I dont disagree that I like him right now, and Im sure he will be worth his contract for the next couple of years. But what about years 4 & 5? all with a NTC. Mostly Im not convinced that he is going to quietly take a demotion to LF. He was quite vocal mid season that he is here to play CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, kgarrett12486 said: That's purely hindsight though now, as even if someone was the biggest Tommy Pham advocate, you can't sit here and say you expected him to be the everyday CF on this team given his injury history. Reality was this team needed not just a CF option, but wanted another high OBP and athletic player that could hit at the top of the order. Is Tommy Pham the better CF option heading into 2018. Obviously. Could you have said this heading into 2017. Absolutely not. I mean its not, for me atleast. I was saying it last off season Pham has the tools to be our everyday CF. I did not expect him to hit like he did, but he we by far the best defensive CF option. And I know the injury historym but we had a glut of CF prospects, (that were all used this season) 4 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: TBF though, we were looking to move Carp out of that role and into the 3 spot, as his bat/production seemed like a good transition and we needed to replace production there... So adding Fowler as the lead off guy made a lot of sense on paper. Don't think anyone expected Carp to flop that badly as the #3... I do not remember that being the conversation until after we signed Fowler, and then we had to figure out what to do with Carp because Fowler was a Leadoff Hitter, and with Fowler being the bat we added, we still didnt have a MOO bat. But the limited time we have ever seen Carp hit anywhere but leadoff, he hasnt been good. That was known, so either it was a reaction move to signed Fowler, or its an even dumber decision if we wanted to move him out of that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said: Quote I mean its not, for me atleast. I was saying it last off season Pham has the tools to be our everyday CF. I did not expect him to hit like he did, but he we by far the best defensive CF option. And I know the injury historym but we had a glut of CF prospects, (that were all used this season) We all thought that he had the tools to do it, but you legit can't tell me you were ready to pencil him in as the everyday CF coming into 2017. That's my point. It's a different story for 2018... Quote I do not remember that being the conversation until after we signed Fowler, and then we had to figure out what to do with Carp because Fowler was a Leadoff Hitter, and with Fowler being the bat we added, we still didnt have a MOO bat. But the limited time we have ever seen Carp hit anywhere but leadoff, he hasnt been good. That was known, so either it was a reaction move to signed Fowler, or its an even dumber decision if we wanted to move him out of that spot. That discussion was cited in the off-season before Fowler was signed. There was talk all the way back before the new year that Carpenter's numbers translated better to the #3 spot and that he would be an internal option to fill the void as a MOTO bat. When Fowler was signed it just reaffirmed the thinking... Pat of the thinking was just what you eluded to. They said the sample size wasn't great enough to make the determination he couldn't hit in the MOTO and they hadn't bought into that notion that he was solely and only comfortable hitting in the lead-off spot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) If the Cardinals went into ST last year with Tommy Pham penciled in as their starting Center fielder....People would have questioned if Mo was on drugs. Edited October 17, 2017 by holt_bruce81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, holt_bruce81 said: If the Cardinals went into ST last year with Tommy Pham penciled in as their starting Center fielder....People would have questioned if Mo was on drugs. Yeah, I don't buy that anyone thought that Tommy Pham was the legitimate answer to our CF question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Hey @CWood21 lets see if Mr. Arrieta can earn that FA deal we want the Cards to give him. On the bump in an elimination game tonight... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just saw someone propose an Alex Reyes for Edwin Diaz deal. I almost spit out my drink I was sipping on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 12 hours ago, CWood21 said: Just saw someone propose an Alex Reyes for Edwin Diaz deal. I almost spit out my drink I was sipping on. If we're reluctant to include him in a deal for a bonefide #1 type starter or a true MOTO bat why would they ever think we'd trade him straight up for a decent closer... That's just silly. I'd rather just keep Reyes and make him the closer for 2018 if we were really that desperate for a closer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 19, 2017 Author Share Posted October 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said: If we're reluctant to include him in a deal for a bonefide #1 type starter or a true MOTO bat why would they ever think we'd trade him straight up for a decent closer... That's just silly. I'd rather just keep Reyes and make him the closer for 2018 if we were really that desperate for a closer... I thought it was hilarious. I think it came from a Mariners fan, and the person running the chat said that he didn't think the Mariners would agree to that trade. @Eagles27, if Mozeliak called you and offered Alex Reyes for Edwin Diaz, would you take the deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles27 Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I thought it was hilarious. I think it came from a Mariners fan, and the person running the chat said that he didn't think the Mariners would agree to that trade. @Eagles27, if Mozeliak called you and offered Alex Reyes for Edwin Diaz, would you take the deal? Assuming there isn't anything too concerning with his medicals.. in a heart beat. Reyes would be an overpay, but I think Diaz has a lot of value. Would fetch at least a similar package to what the Phillies got for Giles IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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