kgarrett12486 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, holt_bruce81 said: Cardinals have historically never paid big bucks to their 2nd baseman pre-Wong era. I go back and forth on locking him up long term. Do we need to or could we slide Edman to 2nd base and get roughly the same amount of production and allocate the dollars elsewhere? I'm in the 2nd boat. I don't want to lock him up long term. His defense is elite, but 2B is a position that can deteriorate quickly. His bat leaves something to be desired. He's never been a high OBP guy (under .300 in his career, which is awful) and had an OPS higher than .710 or higher 1 time... Rather sacrifice some defense (although think Edman isn't that much of a drop off) for theoretically more offense with potential to even more from the position. Save some cash too and put that into another area of need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttmikeb Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 12:06 PM, kgarrett12486 said: I'm in the 2nd boat. I don't want to lock him up long term. His defense is elite, but 2B is a position that can deteriorate quickly. His bat leaves something to be desired. He's never been a high OBP guy (under .300 in his career, which is awful) and had an OPS higher than .710 or higher 1 time... Rather sacrifice some defense (although think Edman isn't that much of a drop off) for theoretically more offense with potential to even more from the position. Save some cash too and put that into another area of need... Yeah, interesting discussion. I like Wong a lot. But the dollars & cents argument is strong. Edman at his current salary is easily more valuable than Wong at his salary (even a restructured one). However, that plan only helps if they actually go and spend that money on a bat that's an actual improvement to the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Yadi is looking for a two year deal. Man, I feel bad for Knizer unless they plan to move him this off-season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: Yadi is looking for a two year deal. Man, I feel bad for Knizer unless they plan to move him this off-season... I would move him. May as well sign Yadi and Waino(if he wants to come back) and at least give the fans some fun nostalgia. We ain't winning anything anytime soon, so we may as well give these guys a big farewell tour, and let them chase records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 19 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said: May as well sign Yadi and Waino(if he wants to come back) and at least give the fans some fun nostalgia. We ain't winning anything anytime soon, so we may as well give these guys a big farewell tour, and let them chase records. What? Thats a weird thing to say. Pass on a 2 year deal. Thats been our problem, strapping ourselves to aging vets for too long. If we dont do anything stupid we can completely clear the books after next offseason. Like drop off over $100m in payroll and start fresh. If Yadi thinks he can get himself a 2 year guaranteed deal for the money he has been asking for let him try elsewhere. He has been declining, one year and maybe a club option is all he is worth right now (might not even be worth that). But im sure the nostalgia will put us in another hole, and will hinder us again for 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: What? Thats a weird thing to say. Pass on a 2 year deal. Thats been our problem, strapping ourselves to aging vets for too long. If we dont do anything stupid we can completely clear the books after next offseason. Like drop off over $100m in payroll and start fresh. If Yadi thinks he can get himself a 2 year guaranteed deal for the money he has been asking for let him try elsewhere. He has been declining, one year and maybe a club option is all he is worth right now (might not even be worth that). But im sure the nostalgia will put us in another hole, and will hinder us again for 2022 Yep, I agree, love everything Yadi has done for this franchise, but I'm not giving him a 2-year deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 20 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Pass on a 2 year deal. Thats been our problem, strapping ourselves to aging vets for too long. If we dont do anything stupid we can completely clear the books after next offseason. Like drop off over $100m in payroll and start fresh. If Yadi thinks he can get himself a 2 year guaranteed deal for the money he has been asking for let him try elsewhere. He has been declining, one year and maybe a club option is all he is worth right now (might not even be worth that). But im sure the nostalgia will put us in another hole, and will hinder us again for 2022 While I agree, sadly you know we're going to do it. This FO is loyal to a fault with Cardinal legends at the end of their career. DeWitt values those relationships and they make him a ton of money away from the actual field with the events/sponsorship side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 16 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: Yep, I agree, love everything Yadi has done for this franchise, but I'm not giving him a 2-year deal. I know Waino and Yadi are pretty much a package deal, so we shouldn't be doing anything but 1 year deals at this point in their careers. Either one of them could fall of the cliff completely production wise at any time and history shows it's likely to happen soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said: While I agree, sadly you know we're going to do it. This FO is loyal to a fault with Cardinal legends at the end of their career. DeWitt values those relationships and they make him a ton of money away from the actual field with the events/sponsorship side... While that’s most likely the case (and why I added that to the end of my thoughts) he moved on from Pujols, and if he can do that, he can move on from anyone if he wants to. ok sure if Yadi is like I just want the 2 years and will take $5m per, that’s nothing. But more realistically, he will still want something around the $20m that he has been getting for the past few years, and you can not give anything like that for more than 1 committed year. He has more value to this organization than any other, he isn’t going to be breaking all time records, and if Waino still wants to play, I don’t see many teams giving them a package deal. I personally would throw the same $7m or whatever this past years equivalent was to Waino, and then give Yadi a 1 for $15m with a club option for another $15 with a $3m buyout. Make the two of them account for $25m together, and we can clear them off as we hit the reset in 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: While that’s most likely the case (and why I added that to the end of my thoughts) he moved on from Pujols, and if he can do that, he can move on from anyone if he wants to. ok sure if Yadi is like I just want the 2 years and will take $5m per, that’s nothing. But more realistically, he will still want something around the $20m that he has been getting for the past few years, and you can not give anything like that for more than 1 committed year. He has more value to this organization than any other, he isn’t going to be breaking all time records, and if Waino still wants to play, I don’t see many teams giving them a package deal. I personally would throw the same $7m or whatever this past years equivalent was to Waino, and then give Yadi a 1 for $15m with a club option for another $15 with a $3m buyout. Make the two of them account for $25m together, and we can clear them off as we hit the reset in 2022 I wasn't calling you out, I did see your end thought in the post. I was just merely building my thought off of it. As for Pujols, I mean did we really move on? We still offered him an 8 year deal at the time with an AAV of more than $25 million. I think that was the extent of what the FO thought they could push financially at the time. They knew that if a big market/high revenue team (in this case LAA) came backing up the truck, we weren't going to be able to match, which turned out to be the case. I don't consider offering an 8 year deal and getting rejected for a higher bidder to be moving on, we simply lost out. I'd be fine with the 1 year deal for Yadi with a club option, but just don't see Yadi agreeing to that and more so, the FO standing firm on that... I think our only hope to avoid a multi-year deal is that a team like NYY comes calling and offers him a multi-year deal with way more money than we can commit. Otherwise, I think we're headed down the path of having Yadi for at least 2 more years, if not more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Anyone see Yadi’s latest Instagram post? No way that dude takes anything less than $20 million per. There’s probably a higher chance the Cardinals give him a 3-year deal than there is that they only do a one year with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 10/23/2020 at 1:01 PM, holt_bruce81 said: Anyone see Yadi’s latest Instagram post? No way that dude takes anything less than $20 million per. There’s probably a higher chance the Cardinals give him a 3-year deal than there is that they only do a one year with him. Not sure how he's getting anywhere near $20M/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: Not sure how he's getting anywhere near $20M/year. How's that? he just signed a 3/$60 after the 2017 season. It's not that far fetched to think that he's going to be wanting the same amount per. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 11:48 PM, holt_bruce81 said: How's that? he just signed a 3/$60 after the 2017 season. It's not that far fetched to think that he's going to be wanting the same amount per. If this was a normal season, I think he would struggle to find 18-20 million on a 2 year deal in the market. With COVID impact it's definitely going to be harder for him, but doesn't mean it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 10:22 PM, CWood21 said: Not sure how he's getting anywhere near $20M/year. For one year, I’d be pretty sure someone would give him $20m (I’d almost guarantee the Cardinals would) but if he is going to be demanding multiple years, teams aren’t going to go for that Thats why I think the 1 & 1 is more likely with the club option. And as I’ve said, I’d offer him $15m with the extra $5m buyout for the club option, giving him essentially the $20m per he’s been getting recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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