The STL Cardinals Thread - New Season, Same Old Cardinals?

[kgarrett12486]

Yadi just said on his Zoom interview on the extension that 2022 will indeed be his last year playing. I never thought I'd hear that; I thought he'd force the organization to make the call.

Curious to see what happens with Knizner now this offseason. 

[CWood21]

16 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Waino is likely next, as soon as he gets the OK from the wife, and I’d expect Pujols to be signed basically the minute he is able to

Lets all hope that’s just setting the table for a SS and reliable SP

There's no way Pujols is back short of him signing a 1 day deal to retire a Cardinal.  There's just no way to fit him on the roster with Goldschmidt on the roster.

[CWood21]

12 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Curious to see what happens with Knizner now this offseason. 

Nothing.  He's our backup C to start the season, and when the inevitable injury happens he'll be our starting C.  He'll go into the 2023 season as his first year of arbitration and get relative peanuts.

[StLunatic88]

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

There's no way Pujols is back short of him signing a 1 day deal to retire a Cardinal.  There's just no way to fit him on the roster with Goldschmidt on the roster.

Are you still in denial about the DH or something?

[kgarrett12486]

10 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Nothing.  He's our backup C to start the season, and when the inevitable injury happens he'll be our starting C.  He'll go into the 2023 season as his first year of arbitration and get relative peanuts.

IDK, I still think he could be moved as part of a package this off-season. He's still got value.

[CWood21]

29 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

IDK, I still think he could be moved as part of a package this off-season. He's still got value.

He's effectively been our backup C for the last 2.5 years, and he hasn't played much.  And when he has played, he hasn't hit very well.  There's not much value left.  Carson Kelly still had value because was still viewed as a prospect.  And not to mention, we'd need another backup C.

[CWood21]

5 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Are you still in denial about the DH or something?

I've never been in denial about the DH coming.  I just don't think it was in the near future like others do.  I'll wait to see where we end up in the upcoming work stoppage.  Everyone was convinced it was going to be this year, and it didn't happen.

[kgarrett12486]

46 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He's effectively been our backup C for the last 2.5 years, and he hasn't played much.  And when he has played, he hasn't hit very well.  There's not much value left.  Carson Kelly still had value because was still viewed as a prospect.  And not to mention, we'd need another backup C.

Exactly, that's the key here. He's never been given an semblance of appropriate paying time to actually gauge what he is. He's always just fallen into the play behind Yadi when he needs a day off every two weeks guy. It doesn't matter if you're a Adley Rutschman type prospect at catcher, if you're only getting 1-2 games every other week, you're not going to hit with any consistency. He's never even gotten the 500 PA's most scouts use to actually judge/project a player at MLB level.

He's still relatively young, still cost controlled for several more seasons, he plays an immensely valuable position. There is still value in that even if his prospect status has worn. Like I said, he could be a piece teams look at as a change of scenery guy as part of a package.

There are always back-up catching options on the market that can be had on the cheap, especially with how sporadically we use them. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by kgarrett12486

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I've never been in denial about the DH coming.  I just don't think it was in the near future like others do.  I'll wait to see where we end up in the upcoming work stoppage.  Everyone was convinced it was going to be this year, and it didn't happen.

Yes, it was clearly held out as a bargaining chip in said upcoming CBA negotiations. Im not sure how you can think it isnt here in 2022 (or whenever they play next, which it better be 2022 on time or they might as well just fold up shop because it would kill the sport) There was a chance all the way till the 11th hour that it would be in play this season.

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

There are always back-up catching options on the market that can be had on the cheap, especially with how sporadically we use them. 

I think it ill be much more of a platoon in '22. Seems like both sides see how much of a toll its taking on Yadi this year. Which is why Id rather keep Knizer one more year at least (since he will be cheap) and especially so if th DH is in play, that way Yadi can rotate more there as well. 

I dont think Knizer can fetch us something super valuable as a stand lone, or even the headliner to a package. So dont throw him in for a #3 starter, that we can just as easily go out and sign one.

Now if we are looking at a big bat SS (not sure whos out there to trade for, they will all be free agents) or an Ace/1B starter that the team wants Knizer to fill out the package for, then sure, but thats a different conversation than just trading him while he might have some value still

Im not sure that Hererra will even be ready for '23 at this point much less as a contributor next year. Atleast not the way hes hitting in AA right now.

[kgarrett12486]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

I think it ill be much more of a platoon in '22. Seems like both sides see how much of a toll its taking on Yadi this year. Which is why Id rather keep Knizer one more year at least (since he will be cheap) and especially so if th DH is in play, that way Yadi can rotate more there as well. 

I dont think Knizer can fetch us something super valuable as a stand lone, or even the headliner to a package. So dont throw him in for a #3 starter, that we can just as easily go out and sign one.

Now if we are looking at a big bat SS (not sure whos out there to trade for, they will all be free agents) or an Ace/1B starter that the team wants Knizer to fill out the package for, then sure, but thats a different conversation than just trading him while he might have some value still

Im not sure that Hererra will even be ready for '23 at this point much less as a contributor next year. Atleast not the way hes hitting in AA right now.

First, let me say that I agree 100% that in 22' there should be a more regular platoon with Knizner and Yadi. However, with the way this FO/staff is loyal to their 'guys', it wouldn't shock me to see him take on another 75% or more role next season given it's his farewell tour.

I's like to keep Knizner on this roster and for him to actually get a fair chance/evaluation. I wouldn't be shocked though if they did put him in a package for a deal, as I think teams will still find value in him, but only is a package as both of us have eluded to.

We all know the FO sees Herrera as the next guy, but like you said, highly doubtful he just takes over the full-time role in 23' unless he just tears it up next year at AA/AAA. They're going to need that bridge guy and while I think Knizner is certainly capable/deserving of the opportunity to show that, it wouldn't shock me to see them move Knizner, sign a cheaper back-up on a 1 year deal in 22 and then look at a bridge guy for a 1-2 year deal in 23 while Herrera refines himself to take over. A guy like Omar Navarez, Tucker Barnhardt, etc.

[StLunatic88]

I expected to come in here this morning and see atleast one of you defending Schildt from last night...

Wonder if its more that you all are seeing he isnt fit for this, or youre just so apathetic with this team that you didnt watch that colossal screw up

[JonStark]

2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I expected to come in here this morning and see atleast one of you defending Schildt from last night...

Wonder if its more that you all are seeing he isnt fit for this, or youre just so apathetic with this team that you didnt watch that colossal screw up

At this point, I think it would be more beneficial to the team for them to miss the playoffs and get rid of him than it would be to sneak in the WC. Our future is looking really bright and I'd hate to waste it with him calling the shots. 

I'll never root for them to lose/tank, but it would probably help more in the long term. 

[StLunatic88]

2 minutes ago, JonStark said:

At this point, I think it would be more beneficial to the team for them to miss the playoffs and get rid of him than it would be to sneak in the WC

Its kind of crazy how bad the entire NL Wild Card has been lately, that we havent really lost any ground (still 4.5 out) 

But I will say, I think this scenario is the issue with not only a large majority of the Cardinals fanbase (not calling you specifically out) but more detrimental, the mindset of the Ownership of the team. That "hey we've done it before, theres still a chance!" idea because thats how we won 2 titles. Which results in the highest draft pick weve had since like 2010 is #18/19. That means we cant draft cornerstones at the top of the draft.

And I dont think this will change until A) we win another World Series, or B) Bill DeWitt is no longer the owner of the team.

But you are right, we need to miss the playoffs (for only the 5th time in 13 years, most of them by Matheny) To get ourselves out of this mess

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I expected to come in here this morning and see atleast one of you defending Schildt from last night...

Wonder if its more that you all are seeing he isnt fit for this, or youre just so apathetic with this team that you didnt watch that colossal screw up

I don't think anyone thinks he's anything more than an average manager.  Which ironically seems to be the fact that we're on pace for a .500 year.  But you can second guess every decision, but not every decision is going to be made correctly.  The Cardinals have some work to be done this offseason.