The STL Cardinals Thread - New Season, Same Old Cardinals?

[kgarrett12486]

I think most of us (especially looking back at some of the past comments in this thread on topic) were hesitant to believe the FO would actually pull the trigger on Walker being on the opening day club. However, we shouldn't have been. 

The Cardoinals have always given the propensity to allow a top prospect to earn his way onto the club. Plus, the service time issue has been somehwat negated with the most recent CBA changes. As now, teams can get an extra draft pick if they have that guy on the opening day roster and he wins ROY. We all know how teams value picks. 

[kgarrett12486]

On 3/25/2023 at 7:03 PM, CWood21 said:

2B Brendan Donovan
LF Lars Nootbarr
1B Paul Goldschmidt
3B Nolan Arenado
C Willson Contreras
DH Tyler O'Neill
RF Jordan Walker
CF Dylan Carlson
SS Tommy Edman

I would assume that's our everyday lineup.  Probably see the outfielders rotate positions.

In hearing some of the people close to the Cardinals, it's sounding like this to me:

2B Donovan

RF Nootbarr

1B Goldy

3B Arenado

C Contreras

CF O'Neill

DH Carlson/Gorman

LF Walker

SS Edman

Sounds like they want Walker to get comfortable in the OF and plan to use him in LF to start. 

heard Carlson is still dealing with a lower body injury and may start as the DH. They really like TON in center too. Agree though, probably a lot of OF rotation as most everyone can play multiple OF spots at a high level. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by kgarrett12486

[JonStark]

12 hours ago, twslhs20 said:

Package feels light. But...

I'm fine adding more as long as we keep Hence. I feel like the market for a few months of Otani may not be as insane as everyone expects (even though it'll still be high), but the extending him part of it would be the most difficult. 

[kgarrett12486]

3 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I'm fine adding more as long as we keep Hence. I feel like the market for a few months of Otani may not be as insane as everyone expects (even though it'll still be high), but the extending him part of it would be the most difficult. 

There would be 0% chance of extending him in season. He's headed for FA, as he's going to be the most complex/polorizing FA in baseball history given you're essentially getting an MVP level hitter and All-Start level starter in one package.

No way his agent lets him not get to the market now. 

[kgarrett12486]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:16 PM, CWood21 said:

 

He really tuend heads this spring with his bat. He's mucgh more advanced than I thought. 

if we didn't have an already insanely deep position player group, he probably would've made this team.

[kgarrett12486]

17 hours ago, ttitansfan4life said:

So what pitching we trading for this year at the deadline because this rotation is likely bottom 15 in all of baseball. 

Yah, iut definelty looks light on paper, especially with Flaherty's struggles this spring and Wainwright injury. Looking at the pitching landscape though, this could pontentially be a year with a lot of ace calibur pitchers available. Names like Woodruff, Burnes, Bieber, Nola come to mind here.

[JonStark]

2 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

There would be 0% chance of extending him in season. He's headed for FA, as he's going to be the most complex/polorizing FA in baseball history given you're essentially getting an MVP level hitter and All-Start level starter in one package.

No way his agent lets him not get to the market now. 

Yeah you're probably right, but if the Cardinals pony up and he enjoys playing for a winner with guys like Noot and Arenado around, maybe we get lucky. 

[hrubes20]

3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

In hearing some of the people close to the Cardinals, it's sounding like this to me:

2B Donovan

RF Nootbarr

1B Goldy

3B Arenado

C Contreras

CF O'Neill

DH Carlson/Gorman

LF Walker

SS Edman

Sounds like they want Walker to get comfortable in the OF and plan to use him in LF to start. 

heard Carlson is still dealing with a lower body injury and may start as the DH. They really like TON in center too. Agree though, probably a lot of OF rotation as most everyone can play multiple OF spots at a high level. 

That's a sexy lineup in STL.  I hate it.

[StLunatic88]

On 3/24/2023 at 5:22 PM, holt_bruce81 said:

Im glad he made it, I didnt think they would do it (the rewards for not manipulating Service Time are not that good). But now he has to deliver, and a not having a hit for the past week (and 4/30 since the shoulder injury) really worries me. How long of a rope do you give him to start the season? Obviously if TON/Carlson/Noot start slow also it helps Walkers case, but if Gorman is hot, and so is Donavan, it starts to squeeze the Plate Appearances again, just from another angle 

Edited March 27, 2023 by StLunatic88

[StLunatic88]

3 hours ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Yah, iut definelty looks light on paper, especially with Flaherty's struggles this spring and Wainwright injury. Looking at the pitching landscape though, this could pontentially be a year with a lot of ace calibur pitchers available. Names like Woodruff, Burnes, Bieber, Nola come to mind here.

The only thing that Jack ever represented to this Rotation was elevating it to Really Good if he was ever making it back to his Ace Status

Ill take Mikolas - Matz - Montgomery all day. Mikolas has been so reliable nearly his entire time in St Louis. Matz got alot of flack last year, for what... No real reason? And Monty has been solid since getting here.

If we have an Up and down Jack, and then just a solid+ #5 out of Waino/Woodford/Etc. Ill take that all day every day. (plus the ability to go get an Ace in the trade)

[kgarrett12486]

31 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

The only thing that Jack ever represented to this Rotation was elevating it to Really Good if he was ever making it back to his Ace Status

Ill take Mikolas - Matz - Montgomery all day. Mikolas has been so reliable nearly his entire time in St Louis. Matz got alot of flack last year, for what... No real reason? And Monty has been solid since getting here.

If we have an Up and down Jack, and then just a solid+ #5 out of Waino/Woodford/Etc. Ill take that all day every day. (plus the ability to go get an Ace in the trade)

Mikolas - no issues here, you know exactly what you're getting

Montgomery - very solid #3 and should provide iniings. Even bigger bonus if he can pitch like last year. 

Matz - he has looked good this spring. The issue here is him coming off only throwing 48 IP last year, so expecting him to throw more than 100-120 IPs may be a stretch. 

Flaherty - Stuff has just not looked good. Given his injury history, probably expect he'll miss time this season. He may be dealing with something currently. 

Wainwright - Been a horse the last few years, but aleady staring out on IL and at some point, he's due to breakdown at 41. 

My biggest issue with the rotation is being able to get the innings you need to get through the 162 game season, beacause enivitably there will be injuries. Even with what we have in guys like Woodford and Liberatore, stil lthink you're gonna need more arms to weather that. Like you and I have said though, if they can manage the first few months, they have the ability to add anyone they want. 

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

Matz - he has looked good this spring. The issue here is him coming off only throwing 48 IP last year, so expecting him to throw more than 100-120 IPs may be a stretch. 

 

I think we worry too much about this, in normal seasons for him, he hasnt pitched less than 150 innings since .like 2017

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, kgarrett12486 said:

My biggest issue with the rotation is being able to get the innings you need to get through the 162 game season, beacause enivitably there will be injuries. Even with what we have in guys like Woodford and Liberatore, stil lthink you're gonna need more arms to weather that. Like you and I have said though, if they can manage the first few months, they have the ability to add anyone they want. 

I do think we will see plenty of the young arms this season. Obviously Woodford is already giving us some, we will see Liberatore, but also Pallante, Graceffo maybe even McGreevy or Hjarpe.

Plus youve got Packy and Thompson up in the Bullpen already

Im less worried about getting enough innings, Im more worried if Marmol has the ability to correctly use the innings we have

[StLunatic88]

Also... Were going to have to make some moves soon, because Masyn Winn is coming

[MOSteelers56]

I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but VEB has been talking a lot about the improvements Libby has been showing with his stuff this spring. Maybe another pitching coach will unlock something in him? It’s possible Libby puts in some innings this year too. Woodford’s looked good so far too. It’s not a great idea to try to figure out a rotation during the season, but we’ve got an offense that gives us a little wiggle room.