Enough of the Lamar Jackson nonsense; Ben was a much better passer

[rlon]

No one 🥲really wants to pay big guaranteed money to Lamar Jackson. People act so befuddled, some even hint that it’s racist owner collusion. Point out that he is a limited pocket passer, and then they go after whoever says that. You know why Jackson has good stats throwing from the pocket? Because he primarily throws to the running backs and tight ends, and he struggles to get the ball to wide outs outside the hash (unless it’s a screen pass) and/or down the field. Combine that with the fact that he is getting older and will always be an injury risk…it’s not racism, it’s just a competent business approach to avoid giving up a lot for him. The day the Ravens sign LJ to a fully guaranteed, huge contract is the day they doom their franchise for years. In the words of a former RavenJet Bart Scott, ”Can’t wait!” Will OBJ’s father be attacked and called a racist self loathing black man when he complains that his son isn’t getting the ball enough?

Edited April 16, 2023 by rlon

[armsteeld]

Racists are the main ones screaming about racism. Media is saying owners are using collision against Lamar due to true fully guaranteed contracts not because he's Black. Your whole thread is just anger and misinformation.

Lamar is a better career passer than Ben within their first 5 seasons. Deal with it! Lamar main target is a tight end while Ben had Santonio, Antonio, Plaxico, Hines, Heath, Le'Veon, DeAngelo, Martavis, Emmanuel, and some othsr talented receiving options.

If you don't like Lamar it's cool BUT don't hijack the narrative and change it to fit your agenda. 

[3rivers]

I thought it was a bit lame for Ben to toss some shade.  Thats what people on forums do 

[mwalker]

8 hours ago, 3rivers said:

I thought it was a bit lame for Ben to toss some shade.  Thats what people on forums do 

I think when you read the whole segment it's not nearly as bad as what RGIII (who is pretty lame as a commentator , let's be honest) cherry picked.
Agree it's always better to not comment, but he wasn't nearly as critical as RGIII made it sound.
RGIII carries some of his own baggage into this debate.

Lamar's a helluva player, no doubt. But I still think that kind of guaranteed contract is crazy in today's NFL. 
Cleveland was desperate with Watson.
 

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, mwalker said:

I think when you read the whole segment it's not nearly as bad as what RGIII (who is pretty lame as a commentator , let's be honest) cherry picked.
Agree it's always better to not comment, but he wasn't nearly as critical as RGIII made it sound.
RGIII carries some of his own baggage into this debate.

Lamar's a helluva player, no doubt. But I still think that kind of guaranteed contract is crazy in today's NFL. 
Cleveland was desperate with Watson.
 

no doubt cleve were desperate, and now the nfl is drama for qb's contracts of all things. 

I kinda like when we win vs lamar so I hope he returns. 

[43M]

Not sure why race has to be injected to everything anymore.   So ******* sick of it.

Lamar and Ben both have/had their strengths and wewknesses.   When Lamar is playing at his highest level, he is better than Ben ever was.   Problem is, Lamar doesn't play at that level very often, and has yet to prove he can play at that level in big games as a pro.   Ben was more consistent and despite some of his flaws, I knew more what I was getting on a week to week basis, as a passer, at least.

I actually like Lamar, but he is handling this so terribly.   Its almost reminiscent of the LeVeon Bell situation, but with higher stakes.   Not saying it will end the same way, but I certainly don't think anyone should give him a fully guaranteed, long term deal.  Maybe a 2 or 3 year deal.    

 

[warfelg]

I can expand much more later but - the reason Lamar is immensely overrated IMO is two fold. 
 

1 - Ben isn’t wrong. The Steelers have done a fantastic job of limiting Lamar’s ability to run, and he’s struggled against us. His success has been our inability to stop Mark Andrews. 
 

2 - My biggest issue with Lamar is what’s his best skill? Like what’s he actually skilled at? And don’t say running because that’s a physical attribute. Reminds me of Donovan McNabb and why I think he’s so underrated. His running was an asset that could help him, but his skill was his field reading and awareness. Bens skill was his ability to understand a defense presnap and make adjustments and his feel for the pocket. 
 

There’s a gif with Lamar that everyone laughs at but I think it shows this point I’m making really well. 
 

It’s the one (can’t find it right now) where Mark Andrews runs across of the back of the end zone wide open and jumps with his arms up, then Lamar shrugs, and runs. IIRC Lamar did not score on that play. The issue I have with it is that’s a play an NFL skilled QB makes 9/10 times. It’s a window of 7 yards on both sides. 
 

So how can you, as an NFL QB, not trust yourself to make that pass. How do you not feel like you have the skill set to get the ball in there. 
 

I feel like this is why you never see Lamar play with a slight lower body injury. He knows he needs that asset to be an effective NFL QB. 

[rlon]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:13 AM, armsteeld said:

Racists are the main ones screaming about racism. Media is saying owners are using collision against Lamar due to true fully guaranteed contracts not because he's Black. Your whole thread is just anger and misinformation.

Lamar is a better career passer than Ben within their first 5 seasons. Deal with it! Lamar main target is a tight end while Ben had Santonio, Antonio, Plaxico, Hines, Heath, Le'Veon, DeAngelo, Martavis, Emmanuel, and some othsr talented receiving options.

If you don't like Lamar it's cool BUT don't hijack the narrative and change it to fit your agenda. 

WTF are you talking about my agenda? Anger and misinformation? You have no clue.

[August4th]

it's refreshing seeing ben in the media and it's not about what he thinks about the steelers lol

the national media really dislikes that dude. I don't think what he said was all that bad tbh

[warfelg]

13 hours ago, August4th said:

it's refreshing seeing ben in the media and it's not about what he thinks about the steelers lol

the national media really dislikes that dude. I don't think what he said was all that bad tbh

Especially when you look at the larger quote.  Ben basically said what I said.  Lamar's greatness is built off his ability to move and run, so if you take that away from him you make him a very limited QB.  I know the National Media did the stupid thing (IMO) of pulling just flat Rating and QBR, but that doesn't differentiate from pocket vs out of pocket.  You would need someone to go through and pot every pass to do that.

But even going simple with it, look at games where Lamar isn't rushing much.  Overall he's a sub 55% completion percentage, 1:1.5 TD:INT, and under 250 yards per game.

Like I said, Ben is actually spot on here.  Lamar from the pocket isn't a skilled QB.  He throws to some of the most open pass catchers there are.  Has a really short AYI.  He's a QB with a ton of assets, he's got a strong arm, good at avoiding big hits, really fast, very agile.  But he's not really skilled, he doesn't read a field super well, doesn't anticipate throw guys open all that often, has terrible footwork in the pocket.