Bold Draft Predictions

[TankWilliams]

13 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Personal opinion but I feel you are putting too much responsibility on to Carter when in reality the adults who made the decision to drunkenly drive are the ones where that responsibility falls.

They obviously made mistakes too.  But if I'm out with my buddies, and I knew they were drunk, first I wouldn't even let them get in the car, and second I definitely wouldn't think its a good idea to race them.

[Madmike90]

Just now, TankWilliams said:

They obviously made mistakes too.  But if I'm out with my buddies, and I knew they were drunk, first I wouldn't even let them get in the car, and second I definitely wouldn't think its a good idea to race them.

Adults will make their own decisions...for better or worse and with all the advice in the world we all know someone who has done something stupid in our lives.

[Ty21]

12 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Did you really just age shame me? 😞

I’ve never seen an actual picture of a dinosaur before that wasn’t computer generated 

[TankWilliams]

15 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Adults will make their own decisions...for better or worse and with all the advice in the world we all know someone who has done something stupid in our lives.

That still doesn't absolve him of his own decision to take part in it. I don't care if it wasn't exclusively his fault, I don't trust that he'd use good judgement in future situations while on the Bears and I think its a huge risk to take with a top 10 pick.  

[Bigbear72]

48 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Adults will make their own decisions...for better or worse and with all the advice in the world we all know someone who has done something stupid in our lives.

This. You hear this all the time when it comes to situations like this. It would be different if his actions were forced upon the other parties involved. They were not. And it is human nature to point the finger and assign ultimate blame to one person, however, often times life is not that black and white. He was a young man doing things in a college town that 1000s of young men in college towns do every year. It just so happens that this time ended tragically.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bigbear72

[Madmike90]

5 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

That still doesn't absolve him of his own decision to take part in it. I don't care if it wasn't exclusively his fault, I don't trust that he'd use good judgement in future situations while on the Bears and I think its a huge risk to take with a top 10 pick.  

Carter recently turned 22 years old...your a better man than me Tank if at 22 you never made any sort of dumb decision...again I am not overlooking his involvement...simply saying racing your friends at that age is not something I see as out the ordinary...if this was an assault or domestic abuse sort of thing he would be clean off my board but I just can't put a driving offence in that same category...I don't know a single person who doesn't speed on a daily basis.

[TankWilliams]

1 minute ago, Bigbear72 said:

This. You hear this all the time when it comes to situations like this. It would be different if his actions were forced upon the other parties involved. They were not. And think it is human nature to point the finger and assign ultimate blame to one person, however, often times life is not that black and white. He was a young man downing things in a college town that 1000s of young men in college towns do every year. It just so happens that this time ended tragically.

This literally doesn't matter, even slightly.  Been to loads of college parties in my day, yes stupid stuff happens, rarely is it to the point of multiple deaths.  Not to mention, he was completely sober, so he doesn't even have the ability to say his judgement was impaired.  He was with his teammates, some of whom were drinking, while he was not.  He was meeting them at wafflehouse and thought it was fine to race the drunk ones he was with.  I've said it before, thats beyond "kids will be kids" to me.

He's an NFL prospect, and at the time he was considered the best player in the draft.  Not only did he participate in something that should have obviously had red flags in it due to the sheer danger of it, he literally had to just stay healthy, stay out of trouble, and show up to the combine/pro day and put on a reasonable performance, obviously he failed at that and didn't think ahead even a couple months to how it would affect the biggest moment of his life.  How some of these guys can't figure that out is beyond me.  

[TankWilliams]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

Carter recently turned 22 years old...your a better man than me Tank if at 22 you never made any sort of dumb decision...again I am not overlooking his involvement...simply saying racing your friends at that age is not something I see as out the ordinary...if this was an assault or domestic abuse sort of thing he would be clean off my board but I just can't put a driving offence in that same category...I don't know a single person who doesn't speed on a daily basis.

I certainly wasn't perfect, but at 22 (and much earlier) I certainly had the judgement to not race drunk people at high speeds, or even to condone drunk driving.  

[Bigbear72]

22 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

This literally doesn't matter, even slightly.  Been to loads of college parties in my day, yes stupid stuff happens, rarely is it to the point of multiple deaths.  Not to mention, he was completely sober, so he doesn't even have the ability to say his judgement was impaired.  He was with his teammates, some of whom were drinking, while he was not.  He was meeting them at wafflehouse and thought it was fine to race the drunk ones he was with.  I've said it before, thats beyond "kids will be kids" to me.

He's an NFL prospect, and at the time he was considered the best player in the draft.  Not only did he participate in something that should have obviously had red flags in it due to the sheer danger of it, he literally had to just stay healthy, stay out of trouble, and show up to the combine/pro day and put on a reasonable performance, obviously he failed at that and didn't think ahead even a couple months to how it would affect the biggest moment of his life.  How some of these guys can't figure that out is beyond me.  

Who initiated the race? How long were they racing? What distance was traveled? Do we know that the other party didn't decide to take off and he just followed suit? If the other party took off first do we know that they would not have lost control of the vehicle and crashed anyway? Have these questions been answered and if so where or are we just making assumptions about what happened?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Bigbear72

[Madmike90]

1 minute ago, TankWilliams said:

I certainly wasn't perfect, but at 22 (and much earlier) I certainly had the judgement to not race drunk people at high speeds, or even to condone drunk driving.  

Again I think you are putting way too much blame on one party here and no where near enough on the other...it's tragic those kids (young adults) died it really is...but they made the decision to get behind that wheel when drunk...they made the decision to put their foot down and race while knowing they were impaired...no one forced them to do it...their decision led to their deaths. 

[TankWilliams]

Just now, Bigbear72 said:

Who initiated the race? How long were they racing? What distance was traveled? Do we know that the other party didn't to decide to take off and he just followed suit? If the other party took off first do we know that they would not have lost control of the vehicle and crashed anyway? Have these questions been answered and if so where or are we just making assumptions about what happened?

It doesn't matter.  This is not some feudal society where if someone challenges you to a duel, you sacrifice your honor if you say no.  You should watch Jalen Carter's police interview from the scene of the crash if you hadn't, where he literally takes a phone call in front of the cops and says something along the lines of "Hey man they are trying to get me to admit to something." Nothing about his story made sense and he was clearly lying.

[TankWilliams]

2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again I think you are putting way too much blame on one party here and no where near enough on the other...it's tragic those kids (young adults) died it really is...but they made the decision to get behind that wheel when drunk...they made the decision to put their foot down and race while knowing they were impaired...no one forced them to do it...their decision led to their deaths. 

Both drivers have blame.  Only one has paid a consequence for that.  You cannot absolve Carter of guilt just because someone else also has guilt.  If two people get together and agree to commit a murder, not only the person who pulls the trigger is guilty.  

[Ty21]

Bold prediction: Jerry Springer will die on the day of the draft

[Bigbear72]

3 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

I certainly wasn't perfect, but at 22 (and much earlier) I certainly had the judgement to not race drunk people at high speeds, or even to condone drunk driving.  

You did and good for you. Many, many, many people don't. I'm sure at some point in your life though you had a very bad moment and would hate for the rest of your life to be judged by it or allow that moment to ultimately determine your livelihood. And on that I will stop talking about this. My apologies. I have been a mentor to young men for decades and see cases like this all the time and have been able to help them turn their lives around so it is a passion of mine. I was not trying to be combative and am sorry if it came across that way.

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

Both drivers have blame.  Only one has paid a consequence for that.  You cannot absolve Carter of guilt just because someone else also has guilt.  If two people get together and agree to commit a murder, not only the person who pulls the trigger is guilty.  

I can accept both have blame...but no where near equal blame.