2.50 - Jayden Reed [WR; Michigan State]

[Old Guy]

10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

After we drafted Reed, I went back and looked at how we have assembled the WR room in the past.  There are some notable exceptions for "small" WRs.  Donald Driver*, Greg Jennings*, and Randall Cobb do not fit the mold.  All three were very productive and paid well, and two were even second round picks.  So we see that there is room for this type.  What gives me pause is that we very much ignore this type when filling out the PS and even with later round picks.  You would think that if there was a spot for this body type, we would be a bit more active in trying for a "plan b" should that guy get injured, and we really don't seem to be trying that.  We currently do have Bo Melton to go with Reed, but I will be shocked if Melton makes the roster, and actually pretty surprised if we even keep him on the PS.  

 

*Both Driver and Jennings were nearly 200 pounds, and miss the thresholds by very small amounts.  Both were 190+ pounds.  

I believe Driver was 180 when he came out of college. Also, players were smaller 25 years ago but I'm not sure we had those criteria back then.

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

I believe Driver was 180 when he came out of college. Also, players were smaller 25 years ago but I'm not sure we had those criteria back then.

I'm just looking at all the guys that we have actually invested in, and it goes pretty far back, somewhere within the Ron Wolf to Mike Sherman era.  Toward the end of Wolf is when we started getting bigger so perhaps it was Sherman.

 

Work is slow at the moment so....

Above both 6'1 and 200lbs is normal text, above one is underlined, below is bold.  WRs won't be listed twice.  I will only list guys that have over 100 receiving yards, and are WRs.  I will be 100% strict, so Donald Driver at 6'0 and 194 is below both.

1995 - Robert Brooks, Mark Ingram, Anthony Morgan, Antonio Freeman, Charles Jordan

1996 - Don Beebe, Terry Mickens, Andre Rison

1997 - Derrick Mayes

1998 - Bill Schroeder

1999 - Corey Bradford, 

2000 - Donald Driver, Charles Lee

2002 - Javon Walker, Terry Glenn, Robert Ferguson

2004 - Antonio Chatman

2006 - Greg Jennings, Ruvell Martin, Carlyle Holliday

2007 - Koren Robinson, James Jones

2008 - Jordy Nelson

2011 - Randall Cobb

2012 - Jarrett Boykin

2013 - Davante Adams

2015 - Jared Abbrederis

2016 - Geronimo Allison

2018 - Marquez Valdez-Scantling, Equanimeous St. Brown, Jake Kumerow

2019 - Allen Lazard

2022 - Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Sammy Watkins

2001, 03, 05, 09, 10, 14, 17, 20 and 21 did not have any new WRs that surpassed 100 yards.  Ty Montgomery is omitted because he is listed as both WR and RB in different years, but he is above 200 pounds.  I used height and weight from profootballreference, as well as yardage.  Jeff Janis would have counted in 2015(?) but this was listing regular season stats only.

The more modern we get, the more the WRs seem to be out of that "small" range.  Now, we did get a lot of run out of Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, and Randall Cobb, who all fit into the "small" WR category.  But it appears that the trend in GB was for the larger WRs after about 1996.  And that was strictest from 2012 onward as the only new WR that was not "big" was Jared Abbrederis, who missed weight by about one extra trip to the buffet line.  

Also, looking at the current 91 man roster, we have 11 WRs.  Only Jayden Reed and Bo Melton are "small," and only Samori Toure and Duece Watts miss the 200 pound mark of the remaining 9.  

[Arthur Penske]

Super early but people seem to be liking what they’re  seeing out of him in camp so far. 

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, Arthur Penske said:

Super early but people seem to be liking what they’re  seeing out of him in camp so far. 

I was hoping to see some tweets about him making plays. Thanks for the update though. He was dynamite in 2021 at MSU. 

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, Old Guy said:

I was hoping to see some tweets about him making plays. Thanks for the update though. He was dynamite in 2021 at MSU. 

There were a few today including videos big B got past Mark Murphy’s eye of Sauron 

[Mazrimiv]

On 7/27/2023 at 9:54 PM, Old Guy said:

I was hoping to see some tweets about him making plays. Thanks for the update though. He was dynamite in 2021 at MSU. 

 

Quote

Reed not only caught the touchdown from Love during a red-zone drill, but he took an end-around toss for a big gain during another team drill. Second-year edge rusher Kingsley Enagbare was fooled on the backfield fake and inside linebacker Quay Walker was too slow to cut off the edge as Reed blazed upfield.

 

[Uffdaswede]

On 7/27/2023 at 10:05 PM, Arthur Penske said:

There were a few today including videos big B got past Mark Murphy’s eye of Sauron 

That’s awesome! Except the Nazgûl are sports administration majors wearing khaki shorts and green polos.

[gizmo2012]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:06 AM, Old Guy said:

I believe Driver was 180 when he came out of college. Also, players were smaller 25 years ago but I'm not sure we had those criteria back then.

Reed is exactly the same size as Driver was and Jennings was the same height 6'0"

[Old Guy]

35 minutes ago, gizmo2012 said:

Reed is exactly the same size as Driver was and Jennings was the same height 6'0"

Driver was 181 pounds coming out of college.

Draft sleeper Donald Driver had all the intangibles (packers.com)

As a rookie, Driver was considered a longshot to make it as the sixth wide receiver. Dropped passes had been his albatross at Alcorn State. His 4.5 40-yard dash time was nothing special at his position. His 181-pound playing weight was another concern. On top of all that, the nuances and timing of the Packers' West Coast passing attack were foreign to him.

 

[R T]

40 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Driver was 181 pounds coming out of college.

Draft sleeper Donald Driver had all the intangibles (packers.com)

As a rookie, Driver was considered a longshot to make it as the sixth wide receiver. Dropped passes had been his albatross at Alcorn State. His 4.5 40-yard dash time was nothing special at his position. His 181-pound playing weight was another concern. On top of all that, the nuances and timing of the Packers' West Coast passing attack were foreign to him.

 

This isn't aimed at just this post, but people often get lost in the weeds with trying to understand the Packers and the drafting of WR's. The exceptions to the rule must be searched for reason and context.

The case of Driver being a 7th round flyer is enough alone to break from their guidelines, but Driver's light weight and him trying to keep it that way was because he was attempting to qualify for the Olympics in the high jump. The dude jumped over 7'6" and the simple laws of physics tells everyone that any extra weight would be a negative to achieving his goal. Everyone that scouted him also knew he had the frame to add more weight when the high jump thing was in his rearview mirror.   

[vegas492]

20 hours ago, R T said:

This isn't aimed at just this post, but people often get lost in the weeds with trying to understand the Packers and the drafting of WR's. The exceptions to the rule must be searched for reason and context.

The case of Driver being a 7th round flyer is enough alone to break from their guidelines, but Driver's light weight and him trying to keep it that way was because he was attempting to qualify for the Olympics in the high jump. The dude jumped over 7'6" and the simple laws of physics tells everyone that any extra weight would be a negative to achieving his goal. Everyone that scouted him also knew he had the frame to add more weight when the high jump thing was in his rearview mirror.   

No picking on your post at all.  Rather, just continuing the Driver talk.

I thought he had no business making the roster as a rookie.

We had drafted a kid a year before or so, that was fast and uber athletic.  Corey Bradford.  I thought he was a tick bigger than Driver and maybe faster.  I didn't see how the club would keep both.

And?  They did.  Bradford ultimately couldn't run routes and Driver, well, we know what happened to him.

[LLcheesehead12]

I will say one thing I don't like about what we done with Reed so far is myopic focus on him running those sweep plays and returning punts, the latter of which he shouldn't be doing anyway as Nixon is our guy for that.  That's bad WR development as it wastes time and detracts from him getting his route running down.  I say enough pounding square pegs in round holes with WRs and we should only have those plays run by RB/WR hybrids who are carbon copies of Tyler Ervin.  Gute must draft another Ervin so LaFleur stops breaking our toys.

[PossibleCabbage]

I think the jet motion fake is a big enough part of the offense that they might as well have a guy who can actually scare teams when he gets it.

[Old Guy]

35 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I think the jet motion fake is a big enough part of the offense that they might as well have a guy who can actually scare teams when he gets it.

He's gonna take one to the house this year on a jet sweep. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

I will say one thing I don't like about what we done with Reed so far is myopic focus on him running those sweep plays and returning punts, the latter of which he shouldn't be doing anyway as Nixon is our guy for that.  That's bad WR development as it wastes time and detracts from him getting his route running down.  I say enough pounding square pegs in round holes with WRs and we should only have those plays run by RB/WR hybrids who are carbon copies of Tyler Ervin.  Gute must draft another Ervin so LaFleur stops breaking our toys.

If he's going to play the slot in this system, he's going to be running that Jet Sweep. 

Half the time it's not even going to be a Jet Sweep and it's going to be an out route out of that jet motion like got thrown to Watson on the second drive. 

You don't want package plays if you can avoid them. There's no reason Reed can't run Jet Sweeps.