GangGreen420 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 33 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said: There is no way I'm going to be alarmed that a 3rd or 4th round pick didn't work out. If you looks at the best drafting teams they are netting 2 starters in every draft. If they show anything I'm ecstatic. Macc finding talent in UDFAs and the waiver wire are an incredibly valuable thing that people don't credit enough. We are finding starter caliber players for pennies on the dollar. Mmmk. Agree to disagree here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted December 26, 2017 Author Share Posted December 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Bobby816 said: I agree with everything except WR. Getting a healthy Enunwa will help but it’s not like he’s a star WR. He was a solid #2 WR. Stewart and Hansen only combined for 13 rec. 115yds all season. It’s hard to get excited about them and a future with them. They didn’t do anything to show a future is bright with them. How many teams - true contending teams - have a "star" WR? Also, look where some of the top producers have been drafted, how long it took them to get acclimated into the league, and whose throwing to them... besides, three solid #2 options that complement each other is more effective than one "star" WR would in this offense imo... doesn't mean you ignore the position, but it's not something that needs to be urgently addressed. If anything, our focus should be adding a TE and RB before WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 5 hours ago, rdelaney89 said: There is no way I'm going to be alarmed that a 3rd or 4th round pick didn't work out. If you looks at the best drafting teams they are netting 2 starters in every draft. If they show anything I'm ecstatic. Macc finding talent in UDFAs and the waiver wire are an incredibly valuable thing that people don't credit enough. We are finding starter caliber players for pennies on the dollar. Agreed, he's done a good job in certain aspects as a GM but of course he's yet to hit on the core positions(QB, EDGE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 10 hours ago, jetskid007 said: How many teams - true contending teams - have a "star" WR? Also, look where some of the top producers have been drafted, how long it took them to get acclimated into the league, and whose throwing to them... besides, three solid #2 options that complement each other is more effective than one "star" WR would in this offense imo... doesn't mean you ignore the position, but it's not something that needs to be urgently addressed. If anything, our focus should be adding a TE and RB before WR Not my initial argument, but just piggy-backing here, it depends on what you label as a "star" WR, but almost all of the teams have a guy with 1000+ yards on the year. Granted, I guess it's not uncommon for a guy to reach that mark anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 10 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said: Agreed, he's done a good job in certain aspects as a GM but of course he's yet to hit on the core positions(QB, EDGE) Also has invested a lot in secondary players that haven't even developed into role players. That's what separates the good GM's and the bad ones. You look at a guy like Blake Martinez who's leading the league in tackles; packers snagged him in the 4th last year. Our 4th rounder last year was Juston Burris who can't beat out Daryl Roberts for snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, barnaby8787 said: Also has invested a lot in secondary players that haven't even developed into role players. That's what separates the good GM's and the bad ones. You look at a guy like Blake Martinez who's leading the league in tackles; packers snagged him in the 4th last year. Our 4th rounder last year was Juston Burris who can't beat out Daryl Roberts for snaps. I'll be honest I'm not overly upset that a 7th rounder is beating out a 4th rounder. I think Burris being injured has hurt his snaps as well. "Investing a lot" in secondary players that haven't developed might be a bit of a stretch. Adams and Maye, absolutely but I think we'd all agree they look like they are developing fine. They'd played the 3rd and 6th most defensive snaps in the NFL for all DBs. I guess I don't view a 4th round investment quite as much as others. If we can pull players off scrap heaps that replace them it doesn't really bother me. We need a starting corner more than we need a role player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 1 minute ago, rdelaney89 said: I'll be honest I'm not overly upset that a 7th rounder is beating out a 4th rounder. I think Burris being injured has hurt his snaps as well. "Investing a lot" in secondary players that haven't developed might be a bit of a stretch. Adams and Maye, absolutely but I think we'd all agree they look like they are developing fine. They'd played the 3rd and 6th most defensive snaps in the NFL for all DBs. I guess I don't view a 4th round investment quite as much as others. If we can pull players off scrap heaps that replace them it doesn't really bother me. We need a starting corner more than we need a role player. To me though, what separates the good GM's from the not so good are the value picks, right? You can't construct all your starters purely based off of 1st and 2nd round picks. You have to find steals somewhere and Mac really hasn't found any in 3 years of drafting. The closest things to steals are Jenkins and McGuire. Robby was the only steal, but he was a UDFA, not drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: To me though, what separates the good GM's from the not so good are the value picks, right? You can't construct all your starters purely based off of 1st and 2nd round picks. You have to find steals somewhere and Mac really hasn't found any in 3 years of drafting. The closest things to steals are Jenkins and McGuire. Robby was the only steal, but he was a UDFA, not drafted. I think the problem I have with that is you are exclusively looking at the draft and not the secondary FA market/trades/waivers. Marshall, Fitz, Claiborne, McCown, Ealy, ASJ, and Kearse were all key contributors that shouldn't be over looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 Just now, rdelaney89 said: I think the problem I have with that is you are exclusively looking at the draft and not the secondary FA market/trades/waivers. Marshall, Fitz, Claiborne, McCown, Ealy, ASJ, and Kearse were all key contributors that shouldn't be over looked. That's fair, but you don't build teams through trades and FA. You do it through the draft. Also, accessing realistic value of these guys, Claiborne, ASJ, and Ealy had bright spots early, but have been terrible as a whole on the year. Take it for what it's worth, but they all have mediocre or bad PFF grades. Fitz was good year 1, not so much year 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted December 26, 2017 Share Posted December 26, 2017 3 hours ago, barnaby8787 said: That's fair, but you don't build teams through trades and FA. You do it through the draft. Also, accessing realistic value of these guys, Claiborne, ASJ, and Ealy had bright spots early, but have been terrible as a whole on the year. Take it for what it's worth, but they all have mediocre or bad PFF grades. Fitz was good year 1, not so much year 2, etc. Fitz was terrible year 2, that would go down as a bad signing but the value off the initial transaction was terrific. I think ASJ would be ranked higher if those 3 TDs that were brought back could have counted. I think he is absolutely the long term answer at TE for us, that to me is a home run move without using a draft pick. If Ealy is the heir apparent to Mo then that move alone will save us over $10M a year. Claiborne is tricky because I think he is worthy of being the answer at one of our CB slots but his injury history is dicey. Our defense, while not ranked highly, has been very good this year. Better offensive play and an edge Rusher could make this a top 10 unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 9 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said: Fitz was terrible year 2, that would go down as a bad signing but the value off the initial transaction was terrific. I think ASJ would be ranked higher if those 3 TDs that were brought back could have counted. I think he is absolutely the long term answer at TE for us, that to me is a home run move without using a draft pick. If Ealy is the heir apparent to Mo then that move alone will save us over $10M a year. Claiborne is tricky because I think he is worthy of being the answer at one of our CB slots but his injury history is dicey. Our defense, while not ranked highly, has been very good this year. Better offensive play and an edge Rusher could make this a top 10 unit. But ASJ still only has 357 yards on the year. Again, PFF grades are brutal. I'd be fine with Ealy if we bring in another d-lineman. In terms of Claiborne, he's been brutally bad. Just don't think he's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 DISCLOSURE: NOT SAYING KIRK COUSINS IS OR WILL BE BETTER THAN DREW BREES, but just for comparisons sake check out Brees's 4 years as starter in SD before signing with the Saints (who were a perennial losing franchise before he arrived). Check out Cousins. On average, Cousins bests Brees in every category (winning %, comp %, YPG, TD-INT ratio, and YPA). Obviously Kirk is older than Brees was when he was a FA (will be 30 next year whereas Brees was 27 in his first year with the Saints), but it's just worth mentioning for all those who argue that Kirk's record and inability to win big games is an indicator for what he'll be with his next team. Drew Brees Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD Average 14 14 278 446 3032 20 13 22 178 Per 16 Games 16 16 306 492 3345 22 15 25 196 2002-2005 SDG 58 58 30-28-0 1110 1782 62.3 12127 79 4.4 53 3 79 6.8 6.4 10.9 209.1 84.7 90 712 6.10 5.67 4.8 Kirk Cousins Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD Average 16 16 371 551 4339 27 11 29 232 Per 16 Games 16 16 379 562 4432 28 11 30 237 2015-2017 WAS 47 47 24-22-1 1112 1652 67.3 13018 81 4.9 33 2 80 7.9 8.0 11.7 277.0 99.0 87 696 7.09 7.16 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdelaney89 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 I'm 100% on board for Cousins, I think we boil down to one of the better options. I think the Steelers and Bengals could be dark horse teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Im Ok with overpaying Cousins given how starved we are as a franchise for a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 2 hours ago, rdelaney89 said: I'm 100% on board for Cousins, I think we boil down to one of the better options. I think the Steelers and Bengals could be dark horse teams. If Big Ben retires, no doubt in my mind Cousins is their next QB. That said, keep in mind Favre "contemplated" retirement at age 36 and played until he was 41. For all the talk of us trading Bowles to ARI, I think WAS trading Gruden to CIN is more likely if they're committed to a full rebuild. However, I'd expect them to stick with Dalton in such a scenario... he had tremendous success with Gruden, is the same age as Cousins and cheaper, and one can argue that the gap between he and Cousins isn't worth spending nearly double the salary to grab the latter. Build that offensive line and I'd expect Dalton to return to 2015 form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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