mikee Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Nelson and Chubb are also top guys at positions of need so I would think the Bears would be extremely happy with either. If the team feels Barkley is a special talent, they have to consider him if he is there. His route running and pass catching ability is so superior to Howard and he could do amazing things in Nagy's offense considering the splash that Hunt made last season. So if any of those three are available I think the Bears would go in that direction. If they are not, then it appears the next tier includes front seven players Edmunds/Smith/Landry/Vea, and DBs Fitzpatrick/Ward/James/Alexander. I'm sure everyone has their favorites from that group, and the Bears will have their own, but it seems reasonable that one of those guys is who they will consider next. Assuming Callahan returns the Bears have solid starters returning at all 5 DB spots. Yes, they need some depth behind those guys but right now they have huge questions at 3 of the front 7 spots. Bullard/Acho/Kwiatkowski are current projected starters and at best are maybes or replaceable. The Bears have massive needs for not just depth but starters up front. If the choice is between a LB like Edmunds or a DB like Fitzpatrick, assuming the team has them rated even remotely closely, they have to go with the LB. Unless they think one of the DBs is a true difference maker, I just can't see it. BPA only goes so far. If you have two guys of similar grades/fits and one plays a position of need and the other doesn't it becomes an easy choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 hours ago, mikee said: I think you answered your own question. We have Trevathan. Smith is basically the same guy. You need one of your ILBs to be able to take on blocks and fill a hole. I think Smith is a great football player that can make an impact in the NFL and is worthy of consideration as a Top 10 pick, but he'd play the same position as one of the Bears best defenders. Edmunds provides a more versatile skillset where he could conceivably play inside and out, like a better version of Christian Jones. Trevethan is also often injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, IronMike84 said: Trevethan is also often injured. We aren't spending a top ten pick on injury insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 On March 23, 2018 at 1:13 PM, mikee said: We aren't spending a top ten pick on injury insurance. I don't think there's a whole lot of logic behind the idea that if a player is the best on the board, he shouldn't be drafted just because there's already a competent starter at his position. The exception is QB. What if the first seven picks are 3 QBs, Nelson, Chubb, Barkely, and Edmunds? That's a very realistic scenario. Now you're looking at Fitz, Davenport, Roquan, Ward, and Derwin James as the best guys on the board. You're seriously not going to even consider Roquan Smith because Trevethan is on the roster with Kwiatkoski and Timu as the only other ILBs? Worse yet, what if only 2 QBs wind up going in the top seven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) We're venturing down a bad road because a lot of posters here are talking themselves into the idea that one of Edmunds and Nelson will both definitely be there at #8. Don't set yourselves up for disappointment. Mocks are usually very wrong. Consider all scenarios. Edited March 24, 2018 by IronMike84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, IronMike84 said: I don't think there's a whole lot of logic behind the idea that if a player is the best on the board, he shouldn't be drafted just because there's already a competent starter at his position. The exception is QB. What if the first seven picks are 3 QBs, Nelson, Chubb, Barkely, and Edmunds? That's a very realistic scenario. Now you're looking at Fitz, Davenport, Roquan, Ward, and Derwin James as the best guys on the board. You're seriously not going to even consider Roquan Smith because Trevethan is on the roster with Kwiatkoski and Timu as the only other ILBs? Worse yet, what if only 2 QBs wind up going in the top seven? Grab either Harold Landry-Best pure pass rusher in the draft..... Ward-best man cover corner in the draft (arguably the best overall DB) or Vea- the best DL in the draft. All 3 of those are positions of greater need than a MLB for us, imo. Roquan isn't a bad talent, I just don't consider him a priority talent for our team or draft position. Also, fwiw, all 3 of the positions listed (CB, OLB, DL) also have fairly massive injury concerns for us in recent years..... Prince/Fuller/Callahan is an almost guaranteed 6 missed games a season statistically (and Ward is probably an upgrade over all of them).... Our "OLB corps" might as well be an "OLB corpse" if Floyd goes down, and he's frankly "meh" when he is there (I wouldn't doubt Landry getting more sacks than all of them even as a rookie).... though addmittedly DL wise we actually are in a bit better shape, other than Goldman (who I think was actually healthy all of last year), but we also overplayed both Hicks and Goldman last season so more starting quality bodies might not be a bad thing (and Vea brings some game defense changing talent... because a hicks/Goldman/Vea front 3 should be nigh impossible to ever run against)... Even so... the injury concerns are all over the team, so it's not really that fair to single out MLB as a special case. Edited March 24, 2018 by Epyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Epyon said: Grab either Harold Landry-Best pure pass rusher in the draft..... Ward-best man cover corner in the draft (arguably the best overall DB) or Vea- the best DL in the draft. All 3 of those are positions of greater need than a MLB for us, imo. Roquan isn't a bad talent, I just don't consider him a priority talent for our team or draft position. Vita Vea - if he's a three-down player, can he consistently get after the passer on 3rd down? We've seen NTs either drop drastically (A'Shawn Robinson) or get drafted high (Danny Shelton, 12th overall) and then not produce. I have no problem with a NT at #8 but then he has to be a guy who's wrecking havoc on third downs. Denzel Ward - fits the bill. He'd immediately be the starting nickel at the worst. Pace hasn't put a big emphasis on corner in the draft, so it's difficult to get a read on how he would grade Ward. Harold Landry - I could see Pace liking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 To the point on Landry, there’s some belief that NFL good pass rushers usually post good 3-cone times. For instance, Von Miller had an insane 6.70, Bosa was a 6.89, and a lot of the other top guys had a high-6 or low-7. Leonard Floyd posted a 7.18 at his pro day. Some of the top pass rush prospects this year: Sam Hubbard - 6.84 Harold Landry - 6.88 Arden Key - 7.16 Marcus Davenport - 7.20 Bradley Chubb - 7.37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 44 minutes ago, IronMike84 said: To the point on Landry, there’s some belief that NFL good pass rushers usually post good 3-cone times. For instance, Von Miller had an insane 6.70, Bosa was a 6.89, and a lot of the other top guys had a high-6 or low-7. Leonard Floyd posted a 7.18 at his pro day. Some of the top pass rush prospects this year: Sam Hubbard - 6.84 Harold Landry - 6.88 Arden Key - 7.16 Marcus Davenport - 7.20 Bradley Chubb - 7.37 Landry has been my guy since December. I don’t care if Mel Kiper calls it a reach on draft day. I see that guy being an impact edge rusher for a long time. I think he has a LOT of Aldon Smith to his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Landry has been my guy since December. I don’t care if Mel Kiper calls it a reach on draft day. I see that guy being an impact edge rusher for a long time. I think he has a LOT of Aldon Smith to his game. Are there any of his games that you really like? I’ve read the scouting reports but haven’t watched any of him on the field yet and definitely need to do that soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Voch Lombardi had a pretty solid breakdown of Landry... Goes over his pass rush moves and breaks his game down pretty well... I'd agree with Voch that the concerns overall about Landry in the run game are a bit overblown.... THAT BEING SAID you can see on his film games where they are scheming to run power at him and it should still be a concern. As for specific games, he did Clemson dirty in 2016.... and in general his 2016 tape was all around better.... His 2017 was having a good, but not great year before his injury (and then reinjury).... What I like is that he's already got a lot of polish on himself as a pass rusher, and if he can learn another move or two I think he could become something really special.... and a good year or two getting a bit more physical at the point of attack for the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51to54 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 My first thought was when did Eddie Murphy start doing draft analysis. Landry shows some great technique and quickness, often times to offset not being strong enough to just overpower guys. His technique and football smarts allow him to have the effect of being much stronger than his bench press numbers. Probably the most easily fixed thing going from college to the NFL is strength. Much harder to fix quickness and some guys stay as dumb as rocks (football wise) their entire careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 4 hours ago, IronMike84 said: Are there any of his games that you really like? I’ve read the scouting reports but haven’t watched any of him on the field yet and definitely need to do that soon. For me it’s more his skill set. The elite quickness and the 2016 production. Like the subsequent posts said strength is something that will be addressed with the pro nutrition program. He’s never going to be a great run defender but I think he’ll be adequate at it, and could very well be an elite pass rusher. Like I said before - just see a lot of Aldon Smith in his game, and between the lines Smith was a STUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Looking at a little bit of Landry on video, reading over multiple scouting reports again... there's a lot of risk there. The comp is Vic Beasley, and the only major concern with Beasley was his size. #8 is way too rich to me, even in a pass rusher-thin draft. It's a tough sell to the owners, the coaching staff, and the fans to take a guy at #8 based on a 2016 projection. Something else to consider: I don't think Fitzpatrick is in the cards for the Bears, and I don't think Derwin James is either. But right now we're considering Minkah the #4 non-QB prospect in this draft for no other reason than the mocks have said so for months. The reality is, teams are going to rank those two guys differently. Teams that want a DB in the Tyrann Mathieu/Budda Baker "free safety who can also play nickel" role will probably prefer Fitzpatrick, whereas teams who want a DB in the Kam Chancellor "box safety who's like an additional linebacker" role will want James. I really don't think that'll have a whole lot of bearing on #8, but I think it's worth noting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 hours ago, IronMike84 said: To the point on Landry, there’s some belief that NFL good pass rushers usually post good 3-cone times. For instance, Von Miller had an insane 6.70, Bosa was a 6.89, and a lot of the other top guys had a high-6 or low-7. Leonard Floyd posted a 7.18 at his pro day. Some of the top pass rush prospects this year: Sam Hubbard - 6.84 Harold Landry - 6.88 Arden Key - 7.16 Marcus Davenport - 7.20 Bradley Chubb - 7.37 I love the 3 cone for passrushers, so I appreciate you posting that. To add to it, there are only a few 1st round EDGE that were able to be THAT big with THAT kind of movement. Landry had 2016 tape that rivaled Bosa, though Bosa clearly had better play vs the run Landry's pass rushing was unreal. IDK what happened this year but he was different, maybe he was injured or something. But IDK why else he would have only played 49% of the snaps when they played Notre Dame week 3 o r 4. You don't sit him for any reason unless he is hurt IMO. Below is every single 250-plus pound defensive lineman drafted in the first round that had a sub-6.9-second 3-cone: DeMarcus Ware J.J. Watt David Pollack Melvin Ingram Joey Bosa T.J. Watt Pollack was injured very early in his 2nd year, ending his career. But he really turned it on when he finally got reps his rookie year, if not for the injury I feel like he would have been a dominant player and possibly a multiple time All Pro. Landry and Hubbard both may be added to this list next month, and I would be damn happy to get both of them if one (Hubbard) drops to the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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