2018 Draft Prospects

[topwop1]

At this point I am ready for the Bears to trade out of the 8 spot unless Chubb, Nelson or Barkley are there.  I am not in love with any other prospects at that spot.  I just don't see the value in taking Edmunds, Davenport or Landry that early when they all have question marks. 

I also think that guys like Fitzpatrick, Ward and James are luxury picks at that spot given the investment this team already has at those positions.

I have to believe that one of Miami, Buffalo or Arizona will look to jump one another and move into the top-10 to take a QB which could be a prime opportunity for Pace to trade down and accumulate some more mid round picks, and those spots will be better suited to take guys like Edmunds, Davenport or Landry IMO.

The more picks this team can accumulate to enhance the roster, the better, especially considering that the Packers have 12 picks! in this upcoming draft compared to the Bears 7.

[Sugashane]

14 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Brown might be the worst prospect in the draft and is a RT only, which means he has virtually no value. 

How does RT have virtually no value but OG does? Or are you saying he cannot play OG either so his lack of versatility makes his value significantly lower? 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I'm with you, Nelson or Chubb are the only automatics for me.  Honestly if Barkley is there I would still be hoping for a trade out if someone wants him.  I think a lot of the guys we're considering at need positions (Davenport, Edmunds, Landry) are still going to be there in the middle of the first so it would be great to get them and some more picks for later.

I think Pace is pretty good at the mid round guys and I'd like to see him get more swings at that bat, especially if there are no blue chip players at positions of need at pick 8.

[pigsooie5]

I agree that Chubb/Nelson are in their own class. However, I’m expecting both to go before us, along with Barkley and 4 QBs. 

Denzel Ward is the clear BPA there I think, and fits Paces mold. If he’s locked into EDGE though, like ive said, Davenport. 

[51to54]

I'm warming more to taking Nelson if we are stuck at 8 and the high profile non-guards are all gone. More and more  teams are becoming conscious of defenses trying to push in the middle of the pocket, we've got a glaring hole forming in the middle of our Oline with Long's injury history, and he's one of the surest locks to be a high performing NFL player for several years.

We should be able to find likely starters, given the current state of defensive roster,  at the pass rusher role or LB positions in the second round.

[51to54]

6 minutes ago, pigsooie5 said:

I agree that Chubb/Nelson are in their own class. However, I’m expecting both to go before us, along with Barkley and 4 QBs. 

Denzel Ward is the clear BPA there I think, and fits Paces mold. If he’s locked into EDGE though, like ive said, Davenport. 

Yeah. Now that I'm getting comfortable with taking an OG at 8 I'm seeing more mocks showing him going before 8.

[G08]

This EDGE class is pissing me off.

I love the versatility that Edmunds affords you, I love Landry's ability to bend the edge, and I really like the brute strength that Davenport displays at times. I don't like Edmunds propensity to take false steps and mis-read certain plays (although you can mitigate that with coaching/reps and just having him focus on one task). I don't like Landry getting stuck on blocks and being passive at the point of attack (shorter arms don't help and can you teach him to play tougher?), and I don't like the rawness that I see out of Davenport and how better tackles can negate him. I watched his Pro Day positional drills and he was stiffer than I had anticipated.

It's an annoying EDGE class for me, very frustrating. Let's just hope Quenton Nelson is there at 8 for us to take and this all become moot.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 hour ago, 51to54 said:

I'm warming more to taking Nelson if we are stuck at 8 and the high profile non-guards are all gone. More and more  teams are becoming conscious of defenses trying to push in the middle of the pocket, we've got a glaring hole forming in the middle of our Oline with Long's injury history, and he's one of the surest locks to be a high performing NFL player for several years.

We should be able to find likely starters, given the current state of defensive roster,  at the pass rusher role or LB positions in the second round.

I agree, although I think he's best used in front of a QB/system that likes the QB to climb the pocket.  Perhaps it's because they are so exciting to watch, but all of my memories of MT10 last year are of him getting shot out to the side like a watermelon seed. 

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

How does RT have virtually no value but OG does? Or are you saying he cannot play OG either so his lack of versatility makes his value significantly lower? 

Everybody says with sage wisdom, "don't let work out warriors fool you."  But when players with really good tape have a bad workout they want to completely discount them.

I haven't watched every play of Brown's and don't know his stats, but in 3 games I can't find where he was even close to giving up a sack.  Not once.  Everybody loses once and gives up a TFL.  Haven't seen it yet.  

I've also seen about 5 plays where he put guys on their butt.  In a small sample size.  Not saying the guy is going to be a pro bowler, he as some speed limitations, but he certainly isn't worse prospect in the draft.

I think he is better than Massie right now.   

People don't discount RBs because they aren't valuable.  They are a huge part of offense.  Probably 2nd after QB.  People discount them because there is an ample supply of decent to good ones that come out in draft every year and they tend to have a short shelf life.

Tackles on other hand are scarce.  It is really hard to find a serviceable to good OT on either side of the line.   So to get a good value on an OT in draft is a huge thing.

If I was in charge of a team I would be putting tall 5 techs or big TEs on my practice squad every year and converting them to OT.  Or training them for a few years at a facility and signing them as UDFA when ready.  Something like that.  Not sure best way to do it within rules and without someone poaching your product.  If I was full time I would figure a way.  

You see coaches at lower levels all take their most athletic big men and make them DL or TE's.  Everybody else goes to OL.   So best big athletes are almost never OL and 15th best 5 tech or TE  is better athlete than most, if not all, of best OTs.  If you find a way to convert and develop some of these better athletes who weren't quite good enough to be a TE or DL you would be a long way ahead of other teams and it would really help the game. 

  

 

 

[topwop1]

14 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I agree, although I think he's best used in front of a QB/system that likes the QB to climb the pocket.  Perhaps it's because they are so exciting to watch, but all of my memories of MT10 last year are of him getting shot out to the side like a watermelon seed. 

I wouldn't at all say that Nelson only fits a certain type of offense.  He's an all around player who's also very good at pulling and moving in space, so if the plan is to continue moving Trub out of the pocket to take advantage of his movement skills, then Nelson fits the bill for that as well.

Edited March 29, 2018 by topwop1

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

16 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

I wouldn't at all say that Nelson only fits a certain type of offense.  He's an all around player who's also very good at pulling and moving in space, so if the plan is to continue moving Trub out of the pocket to take advantage of his movement skills, then Nelson fits the bill for that as well.

I wouldn't either, but it looks like I did!  I think I should have said that I think a stellar OG has more benefit when a QB is climbing the pocket than on a bootleg.  Not even a criticism of the position or Nelson.  I think what I meant to say is that it's hard to recall Trubisky stepping up when his rollouts were so memorable and seemingly frequent. 

 

You make good points that he'd be a help no matter what.  

[dll2000]

My guess is Pace is trading down at 8 or in 2nd round.  I heard him say before he really wants picks in every round and he has no 3rd.  Why having a pick in every round is important to him, I don't know.  Seems arbitrary.  But to get a 3rd you are going to have to move down at 1 or 2.  

My goal in every draft would be to add 3 starters, 1 or 2 of those be impact players, another high ceiling developmental guy and depth with future starting potential (not just special teams guys).  I would target 6 -7 guys I really wanted and could realistically get given draft position and move around board to get as many of those guys as I could.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[51to54]

59 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said:

I wouldn't either, but it looks like I did!  I think I should have said that I think a stellar OG has more benefit when a QB is climbing the pocket than on a bootleg.  Not even a criticism of the position or Nelson.  I think what I meant to say is that it's hard to recall Trubisky stepping up when his rollouts were so memorable and seemingly frequent. 

 

You make good points that he'd be a help no matter what.  

While I too (assuming that's why you meant) think that Trubisky has been more effective rolling out than standing in the pocket I think that as he develops he'll stay in the pocket more and Nelson's strength in the middle will become more valuable.

[G08]

3 hours ago, pigsooie5 said:

I agree that Chubb/Nelson are in their own class. However, I’m expecting both to go before us, along with Barkley and 4 QBs. 

Denzel Ward is the clear BPA there I think, and fits Paces mold. If he’s locked into EDGE though, like ive said, Davenport. 

Alright bro, sell me on Davenport. I see a dude who beats up on sub-par tackles using his brute strength. Texas A&M, for example, shut his pass rush down for the most part (I believe he still had one sack). Why do you think Pace would take him if he's locked into EDGE?

[pigsooie5]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

Alright bro, sell me on Davenport. I see a dude who beats up on sub-par tackles using his brute strength. Texas A&M, for example, shut his pass rush down for the most part (I believe he still had one sack). Why do you think Pace would take him if he's locked into EDGE?

He’s said he’s BPA, if he is it’ll be Chubb/Nelson/Ward. If he’s BPA at #1 need he’s Marcus Davenport. Why?

Because he’s an athletic freak. He’s in the same realm as Jadeveon Clowney athletically if you compare the two combines, scary similar actually. Given the lower level of competition he lacks refinement. Some plays he flakes absolute dominance, top level EDGE talent dominance. Give him some high level defensive coaches and mentors and let him grow.

He has the highest ceiling of any pass rusher in this draft, he’s extremely long and athletic, dominated his level of competition, and is the #1 need. All things Pace has seemed to favor and go for in regards to the top 10. I saw a Jason Taylor comp the other day and thought that was a really good one. Keep in mind too, when camp opens up, Edmunds will be 20 and Davenport will be 21. 

I still hope he sticks BPA and goes Chubb/Nelson/Ward in that order, but Davenport would be my educated guess.