IronMike84 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, pigsooie5 said: Quenton Nelson is on the board at 8 and the Cards call to offer 1(15), 2(47) do you take it? No. This is a team that is packed full of role players and keeps on failing to land blue chippers. Take the blue chip player in Nelson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 A lot of draft is bounce of the board and you never know who they really wanted unless there is a camera crew there documenting it and they air the footage. Example if you watch the Cards 'All or nothing' season documentary they verbally really, really wanted to draft Lions RB Ameer Abdullah. He went just before they could have got him to the Lions. They were throwing things and cussing when they lost Ameer. They settled for David Johnson later in 3rd round and struck gold. He was their best player that year. David was just a guy to them who might be a good special teams guy and future player and might not. They even brought in a bunch of veterans nobody wanted to camp and in early camp paid no mind to Johnson. Without those cameras they look really smart to wait for Johnson. 7 RBs went in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, pigsooie5 said: Quenton Nelson is on the board at 8 and the Cards call to offer 1(15), 2(47) do you take it? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Alright dudes... staying in tonight so it's going to be a lot of "tape" study. What am I missing on Harold Landry? His bend is elite, he's got an outstanding 10 yard split, and he has a year of elite production (16.5) sacks and from what I understand was dealing with ankle injuries last season which cost him games and resulted in a 5 sack season. He's got some favorable comps that are in the NFL right now: Landry: 6023/252/32.875" arms 1.59/2.69/4.64 24 reps 36" vert 9'11" broad 4.19 shuttle 6.88 cone Mack: 6025/251/33.25" arms 1.64/2.73/4.65 23 reps 40" vert 10'08" broad 4.18 shuttle 7.08 cone Miller: 6025/246/33.50" arms 1.62/2.64/4.53 21 reps 37" vert 10'06" broad 4.06 shuttle 6.70 cone Some lofty names to be compared to -- I get it -- but actually typing these out and looking at them surprised me more than I thought. These three dudes are awfully similar physically. One difference I see is that Landry has the shortest arms (0.375" shorter than Mack, 0.625" shorter than Miller): That's called negligible to me Landry has the quickest 10 yard split and the most reps of 225. His vertical is right on par with Miller's Broad jump seems to be the biggest difference among the three; Landry was bested 7" by Miller and 9" by Mack. I don't believe there is any correlation between broad jump and a successful pass rusher (someone correct me if I'm wrong) Short shuttle and cone times are all within the same range among the three players So what gives, dudes? Is it because he had a subpar 2017? Is it because he hurt his ankle and it sapped him of his elite talent, and he struggled to produce without having that ridiculous burst? If he was healthy and had a 12 sack season, where do you think he'd be ranked in this class? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: Yes While I disagree, I'm interested in why you say that. 4 minutes ago, G08 said: So what gives, dudes? Is it because he had a subpar 2017? Is it because he hurt his ankle and it sapped him of his elite talent, and he struggled to produce without having that ridiculous burst? I think it's the dropoff, and people becoming enamored with Davenport's ceiling. It's not really fair to Landry, either, as 5 sacks isn't even that bad a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 @Heinz D. which make sense. I just don't see Landry as a 3 down OLB in this defense (at least not yet anyway). As a pass rush specialist though? I could see this kid be a double-digit sack artist as early as next season if he stays healthy and gets the opportunity. Question is: do you spend the #8 pick on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 If there is Chubb, I turn it down. Otherwise there are a number fo guys I would be fine with at 8. Nelson Landry Davenport Edmunds Jackson Fitzpatrick Ward Smith Looking at that list, I am very comfortable with any of them at 8, and a little math shows even in the worst case scenario that one will be there at 15. You can also add McGlinchey and Williams at OT or they can move to OG if you want to keep Leno/Massie as your bookends for one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, G08 said: @Heinz D. which make sense. I just don't see Landry as a 3 down OLB in this defense (at least not yet anyway). As a pass rush specialist though? I could see this kid be a double-digit sack artist as early as next season if he stays healthy and gets the opportunity. Question is: do you spend the #8 pick on that? The Bears can afford to, as they wouldn't need him to be a full time third down guy anyway. So...if they're really looking for pass rush, he should definitely be in the conversation. 12 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Looking at that list, I am very comfortable with any of them at 8, and a little math shows even in the worst case scenario that one will be there at 15. You can also add McGlinchey and Williams at OT or they can move to OG if you want to keep Leno/Massie as your bookends for one more year. I edited out your list there, but while I agree all are good players, there are quite a few I wouldn't want at #8, or even #15. Because of what Pace did in free agency, he should be shying away from all those secondary players in the first, and I see Edmunds and Smith as being almost luxury picks for the team at this point. I wouldn't freak if he took either of them, but I might shake my head. The idea of adding one of those tackles does have merit, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 54 minutes ago, G08 said: @Heinz D. which make sense. I just don't see Landry as a 3 down OLB in this defense (at least not yet anyway). As a pass rush specialist though? I could see this kid be a double-digit sack artist as early as next season if he stays healthy and gets the opportunity. Question is: do you spend the #8 pick on that? You already know I would. Aldon Smith was a pass rush specialist as a rookie and went top 10 in this scheme. He probably plays a 3-down role right away though. While he may not be a stud run defender the guys in front of him are, and so are Amos and Fuller behind him and one who will be right alongside him in Trevathan. I don’t know that he’ll be a liability in the run game as much as not being an asset against the run. I don’t think he’s going to kill you out there by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) A guy on another forum asked me to try and sell him on Landry, so I am just gonna copy paste it here as well... I will add a disclaimer Landry isn't my "all in choice" this year (like say, Aaron Donald was, or Vic Beasley was during their respective years coming out), as I'd frankly be pretty damn happy with Nelson-OG, Barkley-RB, or Ward-CB as well. Chubb I'd probably also have to take over Landry... but the style of player and defensive scheme fit would give me some pause. Where to begin... 2016 NCAA Sack leader... statistically blowing #1 overall pick Myles Garrett awayhttps://www.si.com/nfl/video/2018/03...ats-comparison Some other stats on 2016https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...the-next-level His 2017 he was injured but still on pace for roughly 8-9 Sacks. Even so, athletically, OLB is a position that relies heavily on athleticism, and his combine was elitehttps://www.profootballfocus.com/new...n-rarified-airhttps://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/edge/ Then even statistically his down year this year, in which he played injured for 2 games before getting shut down for the rest of the season.... Landry's floor was still basically equal to Davenport's best collegiate year.... and doing it in a higher division of play. Landry 2016 (13 games) 50 tackles, 34 Solo, 16 Assisted, 16.5 Sacks Landry 2017 (8 games, averaged to 13) 62 tackles, 36 solo, 26 assisted, 8.5 Sacks Then for reference: Davenport 2017 (12 games, averaged to 13) 65 tackles, 37 Solo, 26assisted, 10 sacks Chubb's 2017 (12 games, averaged to 13) 78tackles, 42 Solo, 36assisted, 11 sacks So things you can see from the data..... 1. Even hurt/on a "bad year" Landry was on par with Davenport statistically.... and doing it in a significantly harder division. 2. A much larger chunk of his tackles came SOLO %wise than Chubb (who had a pretty damn good year), as did his 2016 #s when compared to Davenport's this year. That doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot on it's own, but can be indicative as towards how much help he's getting from people around him. Or how fast he's getting to the ball. 3. He still would have had ~8 sacks for a 12 game season despite playing hurt for a couple of games. That's hardly terrible production in itself. 4. Even discounting the much lower sack #s, he was on pace to be noticeably higher on overall tackles.... Most of which came on assists (but that would also make sense if he was a step or two slower via injury) either way, the tackle production went up this past year, even if his sack total took a big step back (and taking a big step back still had him on pace for 8.5) Finally, something that wasn't in that above post but I've found trying to see where we could trade back to.... and it's honestly not that good.... Best team fits are Bears (8), San Fran (9), Miami (11) and Green Bay (14)........ At this point I consider 14 to be the lowest he goes, because GB has a whole bunch of nothing on the edge right now. And that should be a scary scenario for us, because while Landry is a "1 trick pony" with his outside speed rush dip'n rip... and Leno AND Massie have BOTH historically sucked vs those kinds of Edge rushers. That being said, the real team most likely to actually land Landry, in my mind is San Fran at pick 9..... Much of the info I've been able to find on him was from San Fransiscan forums discussing him.... One of the forums has a 138 page(!) thread purely on Landry, and he seems to be a runaway favorite for their fanbase coming off the edge as a "LEO" edge rusher. Now, granted fans and GMs quite regularly have different opinions on prospects and ranking them but that is a TON of love/hype for a potential pick... The conclusion from that I'd make is that trying to trade back for Landry would carry some large risk, since San Fran is likely to grab him at 9, and the furthest down the board you can move is pick13 Edited March 31, 2018 by Epyon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Damn the Harold Landry bandwagon is rolling hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Epyon said: One of the forums has a 138 page(!) thread purely on Landry, and he seems to be a runaway favorite for their fanbase coming off the edge as a "LEO" edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, pigsooie5 said: Quenton Nelson is on the board at 8 and the Cards call to offer 1(15), 2(47) do you take it? In a cocaine heartbeat. You’re likely still getting Davenport or Landry at 15 and if not then you can lock in a stud ILB in Evans or maybe an OT like McGlinchey. With one of the two seconds you can still get a top interior OL prospect too in Daniels, Wynn, Price or possibly Hernandez and fill that need with a plug and play starter plus add another top 50 prospect. We shouldn’t forget that we have two OL positions that really need to be addressed (including RT) and this would afford us a better opportunity to do just that. EX: 1-15 EDGE Landry, 2-39 OG/C Daniels, 2-47 OT Tyrell Crosby We could also turn around and take that additional 2nd and package it with our own and move back into the 20s for a guy we really like. EX: 1-15 EDGE Davenport, trade 2-39 and 2-47 for 1-23 & select ILB Rashaan Evans It’s an assumption that we will feel the need to hit OL early (and a logical one) but reality is we have no idea what Hiestand, Nagy and Helfrich think of the young OL already on the roster and what they think they can do with them. Jordan Morgan was a D-II All-American and HH may see a ton to work with there. Matt Nagy was a QB coach in KC when Eric Kush was a center there in 2013 (3 games played, one started) and we don’t know the impression he may have left then. Helfrich was Grasu’s OC and then HC at Oregon. We keep talking up the Hiestand-Nelson connection but it’s far from the only one in play. We don’t even know that Hiestand doesn’t think more highly of McGlinchey given our needs and available alternatives at OG/C vs. OT. Even if he does love Nelson what about Ryan Pace’s first 3 drafts has suggested that he would take an OL over a freak athlete impact position player like Davenport or Landry anyway? Would he really take a guy many think may be the next Steve Hutchinson over guys who could become the next DeMarcus Ware or Aldon Smith at positions traditionally much harder to fill with stars coming from later in the draft than interior OL positions? There is definitely reason for doubt on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 No issues with Landry. I think at worse he profiles similarly to Shane Ray who has less than ideal size, but great first 3 step quickness. I will be surprised if the Bears pick him Trade down to 12 and take Landry, yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 There is only 1 player in the draft I would hang up the trade phone for and that is Chubb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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