G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I'm just scratching my head... I mean 16.5 sacks last season and let's say he stayed healthy and had 10 sacks this season... is he a top 10 pick lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: In a cocaine heartbeat. You’re likely still getting Davenport or Landry at 15 and if not then you can lock in a stud ILB in Evans or maybe an OT like McGlinchey. With one of the two seconds you can still get a top interior OL prospect too in Daniels, Wynn, Price or possibly Hernandez and fill that need with a plug and play starter plus add another top 50 prospect. We shouldn’t forget that we have two OL positions that really need to be addressed (including RT) and this would afford us a better opportunity to do just that. EX: 1-15 EDGE Landry, 2-39 OG/C Daniels, 2-47 OT Tyrell Crosby We could also turn around and take that additional 2nd and package it with our own and move back into the 20s for a guy we really like. EX: 1-15 EDGE Davenport, trade 2-39 and 2-47 for 1-23 & select ILB Rashaan Evans It’s an assumption that we will feel the need to hit OL early (and a logical one) but reality is we have no idea what Hiestand, Nagy and Helfrich think of the young OL already on the roster and what they think they can do with them. Jordan Morgan was a D-II All-American and HH may see a ton to work with there. Matt Nagy was a QB coach in KC when Eric Kush was a center there in 2013 (3 games played, one started) and we don’t know the impression he may have left then. Helfrich was Grasu’s OC and then HC at Oregon. We keep talking up the Hiestand-Nelson connection but it’s far from the only one in play. We don’t even know that Hiestand doesn’t think more highly of McGlinchey given our needs and available alternatives at OG/C vs. OT. Even if he does love Nelson what about Ryan Pace’s first 3 drafts has suggested that he would take an OL over a freak athlete impact position player like Davenport or Landry anyway? Would he really take a guy many think may be the next Steve Hutchinson over guys who could become the next DeMarcus Ware or Aldon Smith at positions traditionally much harder to fill with stars coming from later in the draft than interior OL positions? There is definitely reason for doubt on that front. As to the bolded, there's absolutely no guarantee of that, for any number of reasons. (The Giants could be picking at #12, for example, and jump on either). As to the assumption of an early O line pick...my assumption is that Nelson will be there and Pace will take him, not necessarily that that's the best course of action. And Daniels won't be there at #39, in all likelihood. So...I dunno. You bring up the same scenario as Sugashane, with the trade down and snagging one of the tackles, and that certainly has merit, but I'd rather stay at #8. 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: No issues with Landry. I think at worse he profiles similarly to Shane Ray who has less than ideal size, but great first 3 step quickness. I will be surprised if the Bears pick him Trade down to 12 and take Landry, yes please. He might be there at #12, but again, no guarantees. I also doubt the Bills settle for #8 if they're going after their QB. I think they do something way ahead of time. 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: There is only 1 player in the draft I would hang up the trade phone for and that is Chubb. You mean take him, no matter what? Edited March 31, 2018 by Heinz D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, G08 said: I'm just scratching my head... I mean 16.5 sacks last season and let's say he stayed healthy and had 10 sacks this season... is he a top 10 pick lock? Most likely, yeah. Or as close as a non-QB can get, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Heinz D. said: I edited out your list there, but while I agree all are good players, there are quite a few I wouldn't want at #8, or even #15. Because of what Pace did in free agency, he should be shying away from all those secondary players in the first, and I see Edmunds and Smith as being almost luxury picks for the team at this point. I wouldn't freak if he took either of them, but I might shake my head. The idea of adding one of those tackles does have merit, though. I don't think anything Pace has done this offseason should limit him in the first from any player (outside of maybe WR). Amukamara is guaranteed 2 years, but if you can get a true number one opposite of Fuller for the next 10 years, you don't shy away from him because of Amukamara. I'm saying that as someone who has been wanting to re-sign him since the middle of the season. Smith and Edmunds are both fantastic talents at ILB, and Edmunds is a potential hellish EDGE if he is developed there. I have them both rated higher than Foster, Reddick, or Jarrad Davis last year. Both are guys that can be all-pros and are as close to Keuchely as we are getting IMO. DT is good but is not looking very durable (only 20 starts the last 2 seasons). ILB is pretty thin as Murtaugh would say... I'm not crowning any of them as godsends, but realistically we could upgrade almost any position. The only ones in the first I'm not willing to look at are QB, HB, WR, and NT. Safety would be a hard sell for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Hey guys We're voting on Chicago's pick at 8 in the draft section, it would be great to have your thoughts and votes. Thanks, GFW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB 1 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: I don't think anything Pace has done this offseason should limit him in the first from any player (outside of maybe WR). Amukamara is guaranteed 2 years, but if you can get a true number one opposite of Fuller for the next 10 years, you don't shy away from him because of Amukamara. I'm saying that as someone who has been wanting to re-sign him since the middle of the season. Smith and Edmunds are both fantastic talents at ILB, and Edmunds is a potential hellish EDGE if he is developed there. I have them both rated higher than Foster, Reddick, or Jarrad Davis last year. Both are guys that can be all-pros and are as close to Keuchely as we are getting IMO. DT is good but is not looking very durable (only 20 starts the last 2 seasons). ILB is pretty thin as Murtaugh would say... I'm not crowning any of them as godsends, but realistically we could upgrade almost any position. The only ones in the first I'm not willing to look at are QB, HB, WR, and NT. Safety would be a hard sell for me too. The problem the Bears have defensively is they are thin at the most important positions in the base 3-4 which is outside pass rusher and ILB. They also lack a guy who makes the defense better at those positions. Even Floyd has a lot to prove. The defense will always be just middle of the road until they improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB 1 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 11 hours ago, IronMike84 said: No. This is a team that is packed full of role players and keeps on failing to land blue chippers. Take the blue chip player in Nelson. The problem is that Nelson is a blue chipper at OG. Which doesn't have as big of an impacton the game as it would at QB,RB,DB,DL or Pass Rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Heinz D. said: While I disagree, I'm interested in why you say that. I think it's the dropoff, and people becoming enamored with Davenport's ceiling. It's not really fair to Landry, either, as 5 sacks isn't even that bad a number. Obviously Nelson is his own guy but you can find great interior OL in lower rounds. People were saying lofty things about guys like Cooper and Warmack a few years ago and both never panned out. If Hiestand is really a great coach he doesn’t need the best interior OL in football. Give him some youth at one of the positions and let him coach him up. I’d much rather have a pass rusher there. In 2015 Washington took Brandon Scherff 5th overall. Good pick. One of the better G’s in football. After him, the following were selected: Leonard Williams, Vic Beasley, Marcus Peters, Todd Gurley, Landon Collins. All of those guys would have been more impactful than a guard. Even though there were more misses I’d still take my chances Edited March 31, 2018 by beardown3231 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsooie5 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I will say though, Arden Key looks FANTASTIC in some of his training videos. Check out his twitter and they’re littered with them. I’ll post one here though so you guys can check it out. Bar none by #1 guy for pick 39. Id even trade back into the tail 1 if I had too. If we could come out of day one with Nelson/Ward and Key, I won’t even watch the rest of the draft. Game over man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, pigsooie5 said: I will say though, Arden Key looks FANTASTIC in some of his training videos. Check out his twitter and they’re littered with them. I’ll post one here though so you guys can check it out. Bar none by #1 guy for pick 39. Id even trade back into the tail 1 if I had too. If we could come out of day one with Nelson/Ward and Key, I won’t even watch the rest of the draft. Game over man. The talent a physical abilities are there, just have to worry about if his head is on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Sugashane said: The talent a physical abilities are there, just have to worry about if his head is on straight. This. Do we actually know what his off the field issues consisted of or are they being overblown? I haven't heard anything definitive about drugs or any of that stuff, just that he took some personal time away from football which may have rubbed some coaches and teammates the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 50 minutes ago, Sugashane said: The talent a physical abilities are there, just have to worry about if his head is on straight. Exactly. I honestly don't think this dude is even on Pace's board at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, pigsooie5 said: I will say though, Arden Key looks FANTASTIC in some of his training videos. Check out his twitter and they’re littered with them. I’ll post one here though so you guys can check it out. Bar none by #1 guy for pick 39. Id even trade back into the tail 1 if I had too. If we could come out of day one with Nelson/Ward and Key, I won’t even watch the rest of the draft. Game over man. Key’s issues were simply mental stuff, no drugs or anything, but like I said in another thread, I 100% agree. Key is a freaking animal. I’d do almost anything to land him in the 2nd or trade into the 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, beardown3231 said: Obviously Nelson is his own guy but you can find great interior OL in lower rounds. People were saying lofty things about guys like Cooper and Warmack a few years ago and both never panned out. If Hiestand is really a great coach he doesn’t need the best interior OL in football. Give him some youth at one of the positions and let him coach him up. I’d much rather have a pass rusher there. In 2015 Washington took Brandon Scherff 5th overall. Good pick. One of the better G’s in football. After him, the following were selected: Leonard Williams, Vic Beasley, Marcus Peters, Todd Gurley, Landon Collins. All of those guys would have been more impactful than a guard. Even though there were more misses I’d still take my chances Scherff has been a Pro Bowler the past two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 5 hours ago, TB 1 said: The problem is that Nelson is a blue chipper at OG. Which doesn't have as big of an impacton the game as it would at QB,RB,DB,DL or Pass Rusher. Yes, I know that. Nelson is the equivalent of hitting a double, or landing a shot in the fairway. It’s an easy pick, there’s nothing flashy about it, but teams can do a whole lot of things when the offensive line is dominating. You know, the funny part is, go back just five years ago and 90% of this forum would have killed to land a guy like Nelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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