G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, IronMike84 said: Scherff has been a Pro Bowler the past two years. How much has he moved the needle, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, G08 said: How much has he moved the needle, though? That's hard to gauge on a team as stupid as the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsooie5 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, G08 said: Exactly. I honestly don't think this dude is even on Pace's board at this point. I think this is MASSIVELY over exaggerating. Key has zero arrests, zero failed drug/PED tests, zero on field incidents, and ONE suspension stemming from “violating team rules” which turned out to him being late to a team meeting. We’re not talking Randy Gregory here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, pigsooie5 said: I think this is MASSIVELY over exaggerating. Key has zero arrests, zero failed drug/PED tests, zero on field incidents, and ONE suspension stemming from “violating team rules” which turned out to him being late to a team meeting. We’re not talking Randy Gregory here. He also left the team for “personal reasons” which I am not sure hasn’t been fully explained. I would also say that just because things were not public, does not mean that NFL teams will find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, pigsooie5 said: I think this is MASSIVELY over exaggerating. Key has zero arrests, zero failed drug/PED tests, zero on field incidents, and ONE suspension stemming from “violating team rules” which turned out to him being late to a team meeting. We’re not talking Randy Gregory here. Eh... weight gain, had a shoulder surgery (not saying this is a character flaw), his father talked about him having bad influences around him, took a team leave of absence. Pace wants choir boys, maybe in round 2 if this kid is around but I just don't think he's even on Pace's board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 As of today, I'm good with any of the following at 8: Nelson, Davenport, Edmunds, Landry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsooie5 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, G08 said: Eh... weight gain, had a shoulder surgery (not saying this is a character flaw), his father talked about him having bad influences around him, took a team leave of absence. Pace wants choir boys, maybe in round 2 if this kid is around but I just don't think he's even on Pace's board. Weight gain is one of the main reasons you think he’s “entirely off Paces board”? That seems extreme. He clearly has his weight under control right now, and I fully believe you put him with some elite trainers and let Vic do his thing and you get a potential Pro Bowl edge rusher. His father also said his son was “fine and healthy”. Ray McDonald was a choir boy when Pace signed him with pending rape allegations.... Or Deiondre Hall still being in the roster after his arrest. I mean I’m right there with you I get Pace wants guys with high work ethics and no distractions. I just think Key is getting a really bad rap for taking a personal leave of absense that clearly was nothing serious or he wouldn’t have joined the team several months later and then started for LSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It's the whole picture, not each separate part. The worry with those dudes is what happens when you give them loads of money and even more free time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTD Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, pigsooie5 said: Weight gain is one of the main reasons you think he’s “entirely off Paces board”? That seems extreme. He clearly has his weight under control right now, and I fully believe you put him with some elite trainers and let Vic do his thing and you get a potential Pro Bowl edge rusher. His father also said his son was “fine and healthy”. Ray McDonald was a choir boy when Pace signed him with pending rape allegations.... Or Deiondre Hall still being in the roster after his arrest. I mean I’m right there with you I get Pace wants guys with high work ethics and no distractions. I just think Key is getting a really bad rap for taking a personal leave of absense that clearly was nothing serious or he wouldn’t have joined the team several months later and then started for LSU. Key has talent period. No one knows the real reason why he took the team leave but Pigsooie is right when he says Key has zero arrests, zero failed drug/PED tests, zero on field incidents, and ONE suspension stemming from “violating team rules” which turned out to him being late to a team meeting. If he drops to the 39th pick and the edge position has not been adressed, he would be hard to pass up. Lo Carter would have to have been selected also. I would still take Carter over Key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I was worried about Davenport's shuttle and cone, but he's in the same ballpark (in that regard) as Clowney and Mercilus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 16 hours ago, Sugashane said: I don't think anything Pace has done this offseason should limit him in the first from any player (outside of maybe WR). Amukamara is guaranteed 2 years, but if you can get a true number one opposite of Fuller for the next 10 years, you don't shy away from him because of Amukamara. I'm saying that as someone who has been wanting to re-sign him since the middle of the season. Smith and Edmunds are both fantastic talents at ILB, and Edmunds is a potential hellish EDGE if he is developed there. I have them both rated higher than Foster, Reddick, or Jarrad Davis last year. Both are guys that can be all-pros and are as close to Keuchely as we are getting IMO. DT is good but is not looking very durable (only 20 starts the last 2 seasons). ILB is pretty thin as Murtaugh would say... I'm not crowning any of them as godsends, but realistically we could upgrade almost any position. The only ones in the first I'm not willing to look at are QB, HB, WR, and NT. Safety would be a hard sell for me too. Maybe I'm more confident about Kwiatoski than you are. I also still like the starters. And I think they could upgrade there later, if they wanted to. You also sort-of half agree with me on the secondary too, so you know where I'm coming from. And a corner, to me, would be a lot more acceptable than ILB. 7 hours ago, beardown3231 said: Obviously Nelson is his own guy but you can find great interior OL in lower rounds. People were saying lofty things about guys like Cooper and Warmack a few years ago and both never panned out. If Hiestand is really a great coach he doesn’t need the best interior OL in football. Give him some youth at one of the positions and let him coach him up. I’d much rather have a pass rusher there. In 2015 Washington took Brandon Scherff 5th overall. Good pick. One of the better G’s in football. After him, the following were selected: Leonard Williams, Vic Beasley, Marcus Peters, Todd Gurley, Landon Collins. All of those guys would have been more impactful than a guard. Even though there were more misses I’d still take my chances Scherff can play tackle too, so he's sort of an outlier. I'm not advocating taking Nelson at #8, more saying that that's what I think will happen, and since Nelson is such a good player, I can still be happy about it even though he wouldn't be my first choice. That's different than trading down, though. I would be happier if they stuck at #8, got a high probability upper echelon guy, than trade down and have to roll those dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 hours ago, IronMike84 said: Scherff has been a Pro Bowler the past two years. Would you rather have a Pro Bowl OG or a Pro Bowl CB, S, DE or EDGE? Give me the latter four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, pigsooie5 said: I think this is MASSIVELY over exaggerating. Key has zero arrests, zero failed drug/PED tests, zero on field incidents, and ONE suspension stemming from “violating team rules” which turned out to him being late to a team meeting. We’re not talking Randy Gregory here. Agree. We’re talking about a guy with top 5 talent all the way at potentially 39. I’m willing to take the chance. Is Pace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Another question worth considering, and something that's been on my mind a bunch recently.... how big of a difference is there between a pro bowl guard, and an all pro guard? The hype on Nelson is that he's basically a generational talent at guard, and that's awesome.... That being said... Wynn, Hernandez both look like potential pro bowlers, and there's a good chance one is there for our 2nd.... Price and Ragnow both could be pro bowler level centers and both are likely there for our second rounder (and then just move Whitehair to LG)... I think Alex Cappa might be a guy who could be a really solid guard too, if he moves inside from tackle, and he's potentially there in the 4th. Is the gain from grabbing Nelson in what is a pretty strong and deep OL draft really worth the drop at another position... most of which aren't nearly as deep? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsooie5 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Epyon said: Another question worth considering, and something that's been on my mind a bunch recently.... how big of a difference is there between a pro bowl guard, and an all pro guard? The hype on Nelson is that he's basically a generational talent at guard, and that's awesome.... That being said... Wynn, Hernandez both look like potential pro bowlers, and there's a good chance one is there for our 2nd.... Price and Ragnow both could be pro bowler level centers and both are likely there for our second rounder (and then just move Whitehair to LG)... I think Alex Cappa might be a guy who could be a really solid guard too, if he moves inside from tackle, and he's potentially there in the 4th. Is the gain from grabbing Nelson in what is a pretty strong and deep OL draft really worth the drop at another position... most of which aren't nearly as deep? Well, for example, in 2004 Steve Hutchinson was an All-Pro, Marco Rivera was a Pro Bowler. In 2007, another All Pro year for Hutchinson, Rueben Brown was a Pro Bowler. Is there a pretty large margin between Steve Hutchinson and Marco Rivera? I’d say, YES. Id rather have Nelson at 8 than Price at 39. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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