NYRaider Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 15 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: As usual, and on brand for you, wrong yet again. You clearly missed the point, which isn't a surprise at all. Teams figured Mahomes out enough that they won the Super Bowl after they traded away Tyreek Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I typically do my player evaluation based on their film. Not based on their backups film against backups from another program in a meaningless bowl game. But that's how I knew things like Lamar was him, when you said he sucked, yet he is on pace for his second MVP. You clearly don't lol. Dude, if there's one thing everyone can agree on it's that you box scorebscout like crazy. As for Lamar, he's still not a particularly good QB. He's benefitting from a down year from several other QBs and he plays RB fantastically. But even a lot of Ravens fans are accepting that dude ain't really a QB, he's Taysom Hill with a defense and offense committed to giving him the ball. That a supposed QB in 2023 has a shot at the MVP with less than 4000 yds and a 24:13 TD/INT ratio says more about the rest of the league than it honors Lamar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 20 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: He's undraftable to me because: Other Riley QBs have put up big stats in college but haven't been great in the NFL, and they didn't have the lows Williams has had. His high was higher, sure, but he's not consistent, and I have serious reservations about his ability to consistently play well against NFL defenses considering he couldn’t hardly manage to play well against run of the mill Power 5 defenses, much less ranked defenses, with any level of consistency. Ronjon, I'm not attacking you. Just playing devil's advocate. I am not a Caleb fan and I think you make some valid points outside of what I quoted. There is a QB that I poopoo-ed a few years ago that I had a similar argument against. As a matter of fact, in his final season in college, he had very similar passing numbers to Caleb's 2023 season. I questioned whether said QB could play well against NFL defenses due to not playing well against teams with NFL level coordinators in college. That QB was Justin Herbert. I have been eating crow ever since.... Sometimes, a QB has an "it" factor that can't be measured. And Caleb is a good natural thrower. We will see if he can process NFL defenses after he is drafted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, Steins Gate said: Ronjon, I'm not attacking you. Just playing devil's advocate. I am not a Caleb fan and I think you make some valid points outside of what I quoted. There is a QB that I poopoo-ed a few years ago that I had a similar argument against. As a matter of fact, in his final season in college, he had very similar passing numbers to Caleb's 2023 season. I questioned whether said QB could play well against NFL defenses due to not playing well against teams with NFL level coordinators in college. That QB was Justin Herbert. I have been eating crow ever since.... Sometimes, a QB has an "it" factor that can't be measured. And Caleb is a good natural thrower. We will see if he can process NFL defenses after he is drafted. Maye reminds me of herbert caleb - kyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Steins Gate said: Ronjon, I'm not attacking you. Just playing devil's advocate. I am not a Caleb fan and I think you make some valid points outside of what I quoted. There is a QB that I poopoo-ed a few years ago that I had a similar argument against. As a matter of fact, in his final season in college, he had very similar passing numbers to Caleb's 2023 season. I questioned whether said QB could play well against NFL defenses due to not playing well against teams with NFL level coordinators in college. That QB was Justin Herbert. I have been eating crow ever since.... Sometimes, a QB has an "it" factor that can't be measured. And Caleb is a good natural thrower. We will see if he can process NFL defenses after he is drafted. Herbert is a good one. I whiffed on him a bit too. Hated him as an OU fan. Caleb has plenty of raw talent to succeed. He's fast, has a good arm, if he takes part in the Combine, I have no doubts he will shine brightly. I don't think he and Herbert are anything alike beyond being physically gifted (in their respective rights) though. Herbert, I disliked as overrated because he lacked something at Oregon thar got unlocked in the NFL. But he was never brash, unlikeable, pouty, conceited, pampered, childish, egotistical, or entitled. Herbert was that guy that even if he didn't pan out, you'd always want to root for him. You could tell he wanted it, even if it didn't happen. I don't get that from Caleb. I don't think his physical talent matters, primarily because I don't think he'll last long enough for it to. Rookies don't usually come in and tear the league up. They usually come in and struggle...and that's true even when they played well against tough D in college. I foresee Caleb getting to the league on a bad team, because that's usually who drafts QBs early. He's going to struggle early and cave under the pressure and that'll be all she wrote. For him to last long enough for his physical talents to matter, he's got a long way to go in the mental department. Herbert, to me, was Jake Locker with better skills and overall talent. Williams, to me, is Johnny Manziel without the coke habit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Herbert, to me, was Jake Locker with better skills and overall talent. Williams, to me, is Johnny Manziel without the coke habit. Good comparison. Actually, Ryan Leaf was a child too. And I liked Leaf as a prospect. So you may be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 15 minutes ago, Steins Gate said: Good comparison. Actually, Ryan Leaf was a child too. And I liked Leaf as a prospect. So you may be on to something. One can have all the talent in the world, especially at the Underwear Olympics. If they don't have the mentality....oof. It was my biggest turnoff from Kyler- his dad was way too present as his spokesman. Tate Martell too. But Kyler actually made it to the league and has been pouty, inconsistent, and depending on how much stock one gives the rumors....acts like a very rich child. Those types almost always tend to be difficult to work with. Eli Apple was/is apparently a bit of a menace in the lockerroom with his mom being omnipresent. Lamar and his mom holding legitimate contract negotiations hostage because neither has any real business sense. Johnny Manziel. Zach Wilson. Mitch Mustain, for those who remember that saga. The list goes on and on with these people and parents who seem to crave some sort of limelight themselves. It's a whole thing, imo, and one I'd simply refuse to have anything to do with. I'll admit, some may be personal bias from doing criminal law. Get some 20 year old kid in my office and his damn momma is in there causing a scene like she's at all relevant. No, ma'am, your "boy" is an adult and you're not entitled to this conversation and need to leave before we start talking about anything. I've seen those types of parents land their kid with hard time because they think they have a clue. And those kids, more often than not, are totally impossible to deal with because their parent has always bailed them out of a bind when the stakes have been lower. Huge red flag and turnoff for me. That alone takes guys off my draft board. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said: You clearly don't lol. Dude, if there's one thing everyone can agree on it's that you box scorebscout like crazy. As for Lamar, he's still not a particularly good QB. He's benefitting from a down year from several other QBs and he plays RB fantastically. But even a lot of Ravens fans are accepting that dude ain't really a QB, he's Taysom Hill with a defense and offense committed to giving him the ball. That a supposed QB in 2023 has a shot at the MVP with less than 4000 yds and a 24:13 TD/INT ratio says more about the rest of the league than it honors Lamar. Two time MVP and likely Super Bowl champion bud I'm one of the few QB experts on this forum I told y'all Carr sucked and the Saints would be worse, you called them a contender. Almost as bad as your Bo is the new McVay take. Edited December 29, 2023 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Caleb’s a prima Donna/bad teammate but he was the first to congratulate/celebrate Moss after a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Two time MVP and likely Super Bowl champion bud I'm one of the few QB experts on this forum I told y'all Carr sucked and the Saints would be worse, you called them a contender. Almost as bad as your Bo is the new McVay take. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Edited December 29, 2023 by ronjon1990 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyRaider Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) Damn. That boy Darion Brown for Kentucky got 3 punt returns for TD including today against Clemson. Might be worth a late round pick and use him as our punt return guy. Edited December 29, 2023 by PhillyRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickButera Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 19 hours ago, NYRaider said: I'm one of the few QB experts on this forum Heck, I even halfway agree with you on Williams. I think using box score stats is a bad argument to make your point, ..... But you don't get to claim this after listening to all your Jimmy G takes for an entire year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, NickButera said: Heck, I even halfway agree with you on Williams. I think using box score stats is a bad argument to make your point, ..... But you don't get to claim this after listening to all your Jimmy G takes for an entire year. As I’ve said, Jimmy elsewhere; Super Bowl QB, Jimmy with Bo Hardagree, headed towards out the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGlove Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Comparisons I’ve heard and now can’t unsee Williams- Russel Wilson Maye- Daniel Jones Penix- Phillip Rivers Bo Nix- Derrick Carr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: As I’ve said, Jimmy elsewhere; Super Bowl QB, Jimmy with Bo Hardagree, headed towards out the league. You also said Purdy was already better than any QB in Raiders history amd stuck to your guns on it until damn near everyone laughed at you over it. Between Hurts, Jimmy, and Purdy... really should be like 3 years before you're allowed to evaluate QBs bro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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