Darbsk Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 On 12/29/2023 at 4:57 AM, NYRaider said: He said Caleb is undraftable, that's hating. No, it’s not. It’s his opinion based on reasons he laid out. You may disagree and you may be right to. Man, I despise the way the word ‘hater’ is thrown about these days in such a childish way. It seems like if you see holes in a kids game you’re just labelled a ‘hater’ or a if you really like a prospect you’re a ‘Homer’ or a ‘fan boy’. Most things are not black and white and there are nuances. Can we please stop calling people names like we’re 7 year olds??? Maybe it’s my Gen X brain that doesn’t understand modern parlance 😂😂 PS - not meant exclusively at you NY, lots do it!!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 20 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: After watching the defense the last few weeks, I am actually softening on my #1 CB take. I think if we could add a truly great CB to this defense, it would bump Jones to covering #2 receivers in man resulting in him being able to go for turnovers more and allow Hobbs to play the run in the slot and create impact plays. The result would be akin to Denver's no fly zone during their SB run. In the draft, I really like Kool Aid Mckinstry and Nate Wiggins. I haven't watched Terrion Arnold and Cooper Dejean as much but I've also heard good things about them. In free agency, depending on who hits the market, Jaylon Johnson, L'Jarius Sneed stand out as top guys. Only issue at CB is you can't trust Jack Jones. Need a security blanket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Only issue at CB is you can't trust Jack Jones. Need a security blanket. I think we can if AP is the coach. he never had any problems at Polly or Arizona State. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Only issue at CB is you can't trust Jack Jones. Need a security blanket. I think if AP is the coach, you kinda can. Otherwise, no way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Only issue at CB is you can't trust Jack Jones. Need a security blanket. Not trust as in he’ll mess up his assignment on field or he’s likely to do something rash off it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillyRaider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 It's amazing that we are put in a position to root for a loss for better draft position. That's what the season boils down to for us now. Draft position. To think that's It's better for us to lose to the Donkeys makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 15 hours ago, Darbsk said: No, it’s not. It’s his opinion based on reasons he laid out. You may disagree and you may be right to. Man, I despise the way the word ‘hater’ is thrown about these days in such a childish way. It seems like if you see holes in a kids game you’re just labelled a ‘hater’ or a if you really like a prospect you’re a ‘Homer’ or a ‘fan boy’. Most things are not black and white and there are nuances. Can we please stop calling people names like we’re 7 year olds??? Maybe it’s my Gen X brain that doesn’t understand modern parlance 😂😂 PS - not meant exclusively at you NY, lots do it!!! The #1 prospect in the draft is undraftable. There are 256 players drafted each year, you think it’s not hating to say the Heisman winner who had like 115 TD at a major program over the last two years is not hating? You don’t think he’d even be worth a 7th round pick? Yeah okay buddy. saying Caleb Williams shouldn’t be picked in the 256 picks isn’t hating. You don’t know ball boy Edited January 1 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 hours ago, big_palooka said: Only issue at CB is you can't trust Jack Jones. Need a security blanket. Agreed, Jack Jones picks have been nice but he gets fried a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 20 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: I hate bowl season nowadays. The "playoff" games are the only ones worth watching. Coaches dipping out, guys sitting out for the draft, guys bouncing off into the portal....it's hard to get excited about what used to be exciting matchups unseen during the regular season. After watching some of these games hoping to see a prospect or two....my God it's worse than the preseason with the scab refs a few years back. No point in looking for any legit prospects because they're playing with and against mostly unseasoned backups- even on otherwise good teams. I wonder what effect the piss poor quality of these bowls now will eventually have in terms of playoff expansion and/or getting rid of the bloated bowl lineup. But the old watching a star one last time in a bowl game, possibly against the nest team they faced all year, is clearly over. Playoffs is going to 12 next year. But agreed the transfer portal and guys sitting out to save themselves from injury has made most bowl games unwatchable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steins Gate Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) On 12/30/2023 at 6:31 PM, NCOUGHMAN said: Meh they both have that weird release On 12/30/2023 at 6:38 PM, NYRaider said: Penix mechanics are borderline Tebow bad Penix has a release similar to Rich Gannon, but left handed. Low trajectory release almost side arm. Penix Highlights Gannon Highlights Edited January 1 by Steins Gate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, Steins Gate said: Penix has a release similar to Rich Gannon, but left handed. Low trajectory release almost side arm. Penix Highlights Gannon Highlights Idk his wind up is disgusting to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Playoffs is going to 12 next year. But agreed the transfer portal and guys sitting out to save themselves from injury has made most bowl games unwatchable I'm hopeful it will help but...I'm not sure even that will. Not to be corny, but I feel like bowl games and championships were for personal pride as well as school pride. These guys nowadays are just pimping themselves out to the highest bidding boosters and NIL deals. Most of them don't care about school itself and could care less about any individual program. At this point, I wish we'd just drop the facade of "student athlete" and just let schools and whoever dole out the dough as they see fit, regardless of the token enrollment status. Hell, save the seats in class for people who actually want to be there, screw eligibility, and let dudes spend career playing college ball Van Wilder style. Cam Rising good enough for Utah but not the pros? If they want to keep him around another 5 years getting paid by whoever to play college ball, who really cares anymore? Edited January 1 by ronjon1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 20 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: It's really a let down, isn't it? Oregon St vs Notre Dame was one O really looked forward to, but heck the Oregon St team fielded wasn't even really the same team that played so well during the year...and it's not even hyperbole. Different coach, bunch of backups, etc. Bowl season used to be my favorite. I watch it for the mid rounders and to get a jump on next years class but yea the big names aren’t there anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: The #1 prospect in the draft is undraftable. There are 256 players drafted each year, you think it’s not hating to say the Heisman winner who had like 115 TD at a major program over the last two years is not hating? You don’t think he’d even be worth a 7th round pick? Yeah okay buddy. saying Caleb Williams shouldn’t be picked in the 256 picks isn’t hating. You don’t know ball boy He’s saying he personally wouldn’t draft him, not that 32 NFL teams don’t think he’s draftable. Those are two very different things 😉 No, it’s not hating. Hating would be saying I’m not taking that kid because of his sexuality or his skin tone, something of that nature imo. My opinion, yes I’d take him in the first if he was available. I wouldn’t trade up to #1 to take him given the expense, but I would take a gamble on him in the first but I’d be nervous as hell 😁 Edited January 1 by Darbsk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/30/2023 at 5:18 PM, ronjon1990 said: You're right, saying Bo could very well wind up being a hell of an OC if given the proper resources (good OL, good QB, time to draw up his own playbook as opposed to using scraps of McDaniels', etc.) is indeed a hypothetical. However, it's no less a hypothetical than using single single stats to predict one's future productivity, especially when using college stats and projecting them to the pros. Saying you're basing something on performance but ignoring context is also pretty cheap, as is mischaracterizing people's performances. For example, you said Hardigree "ruined" Mac. Not the system, not the QB coach, not the OC, not installing Matt Patricia as OC, not Mac Jones just not being very good, no, it was Bo Hardigree, an offensive assistant during Mac's best season. You also said he "ruined" Derek Carr as his QBs coach, yet you spent the last 4, 5 years saying Carr was already garbage. What was there to "ruin" in your eyes? You also said he "ruined" Ryan Tannehill as QB coach. Are we not only forgetting that Tannehill was never really very good before Bo either, but more importantly that he caught the injury bug and barely played with the guy? You said he "ruined" Sam Darnold, yet he was neither Sam Darnold's QB coach nor OC, but an assistant, and Darnold just isn't a good QB. You're now saying he ruined AOC despite AOC already being a severely limited rookie QB who should have never been taking meaningful snaps this year in the first place, will never be a starting QB in the NFL, and is calling plays from a cobbled together playbook after being given playcaing duties overnight when our offense minded HC and OC were both kicked to the curb mid season. None of that is based on actual fact, like you claim, because half the time you're not even correct at his position or duties in relation to the QB and the other half you're going back on your previous stance despite refusing to say you're going back on your previous stance because you'd hate to admit to being wrong about our last QB too much to acknowledge that that's what you're admitting to. See, here's the thing, it's not a hypothetical to point out the facts, and the facts are we don't know what Bo can do as an OC with a proper QB and scheme he actually designed and that currently has neither. Why is that not a hypothetical? Because he's never spent a season as an OC before. Now, you want to discuss stats, let's discuss stats. Coaches and assistants don't compile stats, their players compile stats. Bo Hardegree didn't select these guys. They're not his guys. Some of the key guys are rookies and/or were backups 8 weeks ago. There's going to be a learning curve with any first time OC, and Bo started out without his own scheme, playbook, players, an offseason, or a preseason. What I've seen under Bo is Zamir White, a guy who looked like a gone'er look just as good as Josh Jacobs ever did in carrying the load. Some of the best output from a Raiders offense ever, the TEs being appropriately involved, more looks for WRs not named Adams, a limited rookie QB making a ton of mistakes and yet knowing what risky shots to not take and limiting turnovers, WRs getting schemed wide open despite the limited rookie QB not seeing them, better blocking, less gimmicky plays, less trick plays, a play flow that needs some refinement but could be attributed to a simple lack of plays in the partial playbook he has to work from but still manages to keep the flow going better than his predecessor ever did whether it's executed properly or not (much more sensible play calling for the most). Coaches don't compile the stats. Players do. Coaches put them in position to. Do this, no matter how many passes AOC screws up against the Colts, no matter how many times AOC takes an avoidable sack, go back and pinpoint howany times our pass catchers wind up open and AOC simply isn't executing the play. When Zamir White misses a hole because he hasn't had the appropriate playing time since Josh decided to leave him benched in favor of Bolden, forget the fact he missed the hole. Count the number of holes missed. First time playcalling lumps aside- which again, Bo didn't get a preseason to work these out- the situational playcalling has largely been there as have the looks and the execution by guys who just didn't have the ball in their hands. Ever seen McVay's offense with a bad QB? I have- RG3 (wait, didn't McVay ruin RG3?), Bryce Perkins, Stetson Bemnet, Brett Rypien. Even the genius of McVay can only cover up horrendous QB play so much. And when they stink up the joint, what happens? People look at every single play and go "Dude was open, dude was wide open, walk in TD, blocking was fine there but dummy QB took a useless sack". That's the closest you can get to stats for a OC. McVay had 1 good season as an OC before becoming a HC amd getting labeled as one if the best ever. The rest of his time was nondescript. All I’m saying is we don't know what Bo can or can't do, because he's never had a real shot at doing so that didn't come with numerous handicaps. He could be the next McVay. Contrary to your....musings....that means I also think he could very well be the next Todd Downing and absolutely suck. We don't know. Nobody knows. But he's drawn up enough good for me to say "Yeah, it looks like it's there, too bad our Day 3 rookie statute of a QB can't execute a simple pass play without making it as painful looking as possible." And while talking about resumes....do you evem remember McVays? Here: 2008- Offensive Assistant with Tampa Bay. Things went so bad the staff was fired. 2009 Florida Tuskers WR coach. UFL? Lol. 2010 Washington Redskins Offensive Assistant. Went so bad they derailed Donovan McNabb's elite run. 2011- 13 Washington Redskins TE coach. Couldn't find use for Chris Cooley. None of Myers, Quinn, or Paulsen became good. Fred Davis kept failing drug tests. 2014-2015 Washington Redskins OC. In 2014 they were near bottom in offensive TDs and points. 2015 was his breakout year and they scored quite a bit but were still below league average in yards. Good thing Kyle Shanahan left him Kirk Cousins and a fully fleshed out playbook though, right? Keep on scouting that box score though. You're probably fantastic at your fantasy league. Great post, agree on the Hardegree points completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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