Steins Gate Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 14 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Burrow was a 24 year old rookie True. If a guy can ball, then he is going to ball. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersForever Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/31/2023 at 4:27 AM, ronjon1990 said: It's really a let down, isn't it? Oregon St vs Notre Dame was one O really looked forward to, but heck the Oregon St team fielded wasn't even really the same team that played so well during the year...and it's not even hyperbole. Different coach, bunch of backups, etc. Bowl season used to be my favorite. Notre Dame was missing their starting QB. LT, RT, RB, TE, and MLB, and still put on a beatdown. Agree with your point about bowl season not having the same feel as it did two decades ago. Ironically enough, that's partially Notre Dame's fault (in a manner of speaking). I didn't really notice players skipping bowl season until Jaylon Smith ravaged his ACL and MCL against OSU. The dude was supposed to be the next great NFL LB, and then that Fiesta Bowl happened. It wrecked his entire career. Unless my memory is way off, that's when guys started skipping bowl games to focus on the Draft. But yeah, bowl games outside of the CFP now are just a chance to see next season's starters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 minutes ago, RaidersForever said: Notre Dame was missing their starting QB. LT, RT, RB, TE, and MLB, and still put on a beatdown. Agree with your point about bowl season not having the same feel as it did two decades ago. Ironically enough, that's partially Notre Dame's fault (in a manner of speaking). I didn't really notice players skipping bowl season until Jaylon Smith ravaged his ACL and MCL against OSU. The dude was supposed to be the next great NFL LB, and then that Fiesta Bowl happened. It wrecked his entire career. Unless my memory is way off, that's when guys started skipping bowl games to focus on the Draft. But yeah, bowl games outside of the CFP now are just a chance to see next season's starters. It was sort of going on before that, but it wasn't nearly as common. Usually guys who got hurt daring the season just wouldn't return for just the bowl game, if cleared. But active starters sitting out is indeed a relatively new phenomenon that is becoming more and more commonplace. And hey, I'm mostly cool with it for guys prepping for the draft. I won't hold it against them, but I do give some extra credit to guys who play. My big issue is guys opting out to transfer. The portal shouldn't even open until after bowl season. Not like they're actually going to enroll in time for the spring semester anyway most of the time, they'll onboard for summer or fall. Most are still going to be on campus through the spring semester anyway, provided they actually go to class to start with. Eventually, I imagine a lot of guys getting stuck in limbo when a coach retires or gets fired following the bowls, and they're going to want a do-over. Just keep the damn thing shut until bowl season is concluded and the coaching vacancies are (mostly) filled. I'll say this though, Bo Nix earned some bonus points with me going out and balling yesterday. I still don't find myself enamored with him, but that's a dude who clearly loves the game and knows how to lead. And the ovation he got walking off the field for the last time was something else. He should have been sitting at home with his dog lol. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Burrow was a 24 year old rookie Boom. Thank you. People are making 24 sound like Brandon Weeden. Sure, 21, 22 is preferable, but few QBs honestly start 10+ years for the team that drafted them anymore. If you get a decade out of a guy, you made a very good pick. Guys are playing into their later 30's nowadays. Get a guy at 23, 24, maybe they're easier to keep around at the end with less of a market compared to losing a QB at 31, 32 in their absolute prime that someone's going to start a bid war over. One thing I would never do in the draft is bank on any player being here 12, 13, 14 years later. That's a happy accident and bonus most of the time. I'd cap my expectations at 10. Too much can happen over a decade to try and project beyond that. If we drafted a 24 year old rookie QB and got 8+ years of high level play, I'm happy. Heck, I'm ecstatic. More QBs will come along, just gotta be good at picking em. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Being able to move in the pocket and drop dimes down field with elite accuracy will work in the NFL. I have to see it against Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwinbaby81 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: Does the fact Penix will be a 24 year old rookie come training camp bug people? That and the injury history. 4 season ending injuries, 2 are torn ACL, with his age is concerning. Playing for 6 years gives you a big advantage in college. The flip side is a big reason why McCarthy is getting 1st round buzz. In his 4th season in the NFL he will be the same age as Penix now. I'm a Michigan fan, and I just don't see JJ worthy of a 1st round pick right now. I don't think he's asked to do a whole lot and doesn't do anything exceptionally well. For every QB trait you look for, there's one better in this draft outside of age. But he has progressed each season and has a lot of starter experience in big games. Plus you draft QB on where you can get them to grow to be as an NFL QB, and he has upside for sure based on what he has shown year to year under Harbaugh. Then again, a lot of what I said applies to Penix too. It'll be interesting to see which of these guys rose or fall in the draft process. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, justwinbaby81 said: That and the injury history. 4 season ending injuries, 2 are torn ACL, with his age is concerning. Playing for 6 years gives you a big advantage in college. The flip side is a big reason why McCarthy is getting 1st round buzz. In his 4th season in the NFL he will be the same age as Penix now. I'm a Michigan fan, and I just don't see JJ worthy of a 1st round pick right now. I don't think he's asked to do a whole lot and doesn't do anything exceptionally well. For every QB trait you look for, there's one better in this draft outside of age. But he has progressed each season and has a lot of starter experience in big games. Plus you draft QB on where you can get them to grow to be as an NFL QB, and he has upside for sure based on what he has shown year to year under Harbaugh. Then again, a lot of what I said applies to Penix too. It'll be interesting to see which of these guys rose or fall in the draft process. I think JJ should go back to school and he could blow up and be the 1st pick next year. I think he declares if Michigan wins the natty tho. this is how I see it 5 Legit 1st round picks in 2024 1- Caleb Williams 2- Drake Maye 3- Jayden Daniels 4- Cam Ward 5- Michael Pennix - would be higher but his injury history Bo Nix- not a fan. Old, and played in a gimmick offense. I just do see him higher then the 3rd round. 2025 1- Sheder Sanders 2- JJ McCarthy 3- Quinn Ewers 4- Drew Allar 5- Conner Weigman 6- Carson Beck - those guys will be competing for top spot next year Riley Leonard, Jalen Milroe , Tyler Van Dyke, KJ Jefferson, Jalon Daniels - all have a chance to improve their stock and be in the mix too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: Does the fact Penix will be a 24 year old rookie come training camp bug people? Not particularly. He's going to be a few months older than Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, and Joe Burrow were as rookies. They were better prospects. No debate there. But they also went to really bad teams amd turned out alright. I don't think Penix winds up stuck on a bad team so his transition should be at least as smooth as theirs, comparatively speaking. His age will keep him out of the top 10 picks given the competition along with his injury history. If Williams and Maye weren't around though, Penix would be vying for QB1 and the injuries would be the only real knock on him. Compared to Palmer, Manning, Burrow what you're getting with Penix is slightly less upside going to what will probably be a better situation for him to thrive in for a decade+. If by 25 he's replacing Stafford in LA, kid will be viewed as a top tier QB with 10 or so quality years left while he probably shreds the league. I wouldn't suggest the Jets or Bears take him, but there's plenty of teams that could plug and play with him and be very happy about it. Provided he holds up physically, no reason he can't be the next guy playing into his late 30s. His game should age well. The only concern I'd have with him would be a learning curve. Most people set it at ~3 years. That said, I think he comes in needing less of a curve than some of his peers in exchange for a very slight dip in his ceiling. Doesn't concern me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: Burrow was a 24 year old rookie My thing is I never really understood why being a 24-year-old quarterback in such a big deal. We're seeing now quarterbacks are going to play until their late 30s so it doesn't really matter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mct288 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: My thing is I never really understood why being a 24-year-old quarterback in such a big deal. We're seeing now quarterbacks are going to play until their late 30s so it doesn't really matter I don’t think it matters a ton, but I understand questioning whether a guy is actually legit or if he is just dominating younger competition. But that’s what the scouting process is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mct288 said: I don’t think it matters a ton, but I understand questioning whether a guy is actually legit or if he is just dominating younger competition. But that’s what the scouting process is for. Yeah I guess so but then there's the fact that he got hurt so how many full years has he actually played? Its not like he played for five years or something. If you include this year he's only really played 2 Edited January 3 by Jeremy408 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mct288 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said: Yeah I guess so but then there's the fact that he got hurt so how many full years has he actually played? Its not like he played for five years or something. If you include this year he's only really played 2 Yeah-I’m with ya—I’m not worried about Penix’s age at all. I just understand the logic behind asking the question of whether it matters or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: Yeah I guess so but then there's the fact that he got hurt so how many full years has he actually played? Its not like he played for five years or something. If you include this year he's only really played 2 If I'm looking at 2 equal prospects and one is 20/21 and the other is 23/24 amd they're otherwise equivalent, I'd take the 20/21 year old, obviously. If I'm picking 10th and the difference in getting the 20/21 year old as opposed to the 23/24 year old is multiple first round picks that will hamstring the 20/21 year old in terms of placing a good team.around him until he's 23/24/25 anyway, I'm taking the older guy and keeping the picks. If I'm picking top 10 and the options are trade up for a fortune to get the younger guy or stand pat and aim to move up.of necessary for the older guy with a 2md round grade.....that younger prospect better damn well be the reincarnation of Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers in terms of keeping clean, producing, and being loved by his teammates. Dude better not have any character concerns or questions whatsoever and had damn well better not come with any sort of baggage. In this scenario, I'm absolutely comparing Williams and Penix. I'd love for someone to adequately justify Williams as the better overall prospect right now without mentioning Penix's age. Arm? Check. Creates plays? Check. Moves well/has escabability? Check. Productive against top competition consistently? Leans Penix. Wins despite a lackluster defense? Leans Penix. Humble without questions and very clearly loved and respected by coaches and teammates? Leans Penix. Had pre-anointed 1.1 status before the year even began/hyped out of this world world? Leans Williams. Wants ownership in team/ability to dictate who drafts him? Leans Williams. Losing record vs ranked opponents/lack of production vs ranked opponents? Leans Williams. Had defenders pointimg.towards lackluster defense as the reason the QB played poorly? Leans Williams. Sat out the bowl game instead of giving his fans one more thing to cheer for? Leans Williams. And I have no problem saying that. Penix is getting at least 2nd round love, if not 1st round. Dude knows he has 2 repaired ACLs. He had nothing to prove other than a shot at a national championship game that means zilch at the next level. I wouldn't hold it against Penix if he hesitated to bother playing hard, if at all, for a college title when with his age and history, an injury probably dooms his NFL prospects, especially knowing they would get Alabama or Michigan in the final. He nutted up and played. Williams didn't. His college career ended with a thoroughly mediocre game against a thoroughly mediocre cross town rival who beat his team in embarrassing fashion. He could have played against Louisville and had the game Miller Moss had, or better, and walked away from USC a winner, a bowl champion, and with adoring fans thanking him and cheering him on after a big performance- except he chose not to or didn't believe in himself enough to. Dude gonna pull a LaShaun in the NFL, get his bag and ownership stakes, and sit on the couch with his dog while his team struggles along without him after he stubs his toe? That all being the case, let Chicago suffer through another QB whiff in the making. I'd take Penix over the field right now any day of the week and twice on Sundays, being 24 at the start of the season instead of 21 be damned. I don't want or need a diva at QB, I need someone who is going to get his *** up and out there come hell or high water, and compete with all the passion known to man. That's my last shameless plug for standing pat and going after a real winner and man as opposed to a spoiled little man child. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Anyone who thinks Cam Ward is a first round pick, I seriously question you. He couldn't get the 1 mil NIL deal he was after and decided to go to the draft. Schools wouldn't offer him 1 million in NIL, to be their QB but some of you are calling him a first round pick? He's a system QB with a fumbling problem . He's got a 5th round grade with scouts currently. He's this drafts Dorrian Thompson Robinson Everyone tends to overrate QBs who are athletic because they make flashy plays against bad competition. You watch Ward against UCLA and they made him look undraftable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: My thing is I never really understood why being a 24-year-old quarterback in such a big deal. We're seeing now quarterbacks are going to play until their late 30s so it doesn't really matter It's not, other than developmental aspects of it. At 24, they are closer to their ceiling. I feel like I know who Nix, Penix and Daniels are as QBs at their age. Is there another level? I'd rather have a JJ McCarthy type at age 20 developing in my offense with a higher ceiling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts