Chali21 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 10 hours ago, Geezy said: Palmer sat behind Kitna lol it’s more pressure from the fan base/ownership trying to see their shiny new toy in action. Thats was also almost 20 years ago. NFL is a different animal. Mahomes sat because the team was good and playoff bound. Same for Lance. I highly doubt this team will be playoff bound next season. The QBs are too suspect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 9 minutes ago, big_palooka said: What were Mahomes elite traits coming out? I agree on bulking up. But he's 20, he'll be fine. He's not Daniels who is 23 and maxed out. His arm, I remember guys talking about his arm and mobility. He was raw though that was his biggest knock and honestly if he went somewhere else he probably would have bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 20 minutes ago, big_palooka said: What were Mahomes elite traits coming out? I agree on bulking up. But he's 20, he'll be fine. He's not Daniels who is 23 and maxed out. God tier arm strength I definitely agree on the age though, I'd imagine McCarthy would be god tier in college 3 to 4 years from now. Edited January 9 by NYRaider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: JJ actually reminds me of a more raw Zach Wilson. He prolly will wow people with his arm, and is athletic like Zach. Wilson had more monster games in college too. Can’t just go for arm talent, QB look, and athletic ability I say mix between josh Allen and Zach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: Here is what I will say on McCarthy as my opinion has not changed. Some of you are too caught up on stats and gravitate towards guys that sling the ball 40 times a game. That is not Michigan Football under Jim Harbaugh. They built the nations top Oline to run the ball and wear you out with 2 of the nations top RBs. This offense puts more pressure on the QB to make plays on 3rd down when you get in those situations in their run, run pass approach. 73% McCarthy's passes on third down resulted in a first down. Compared to Penix 46.3 percent and Maye 52.3 percent (last stat I could find from Nov.) Sure, we'd all like to see McCarthy sling it 40 times and get into a rhythm, but that is not the game they are playing. He is raw and you're looking at traits. He's made more NFL caliber throws in his limited attempts than guys who are throwing it 40 times a game. Tight window throw with anticipation. He has NFL level pocket awareness and ability on the move and play out of structure. You're projecting you can take a 20 year kid and further develop those NFL traits. He may need a redshirt year, but I'd take his upside when he turns 24 over Penix or Daniels who've been in college 5+ years hitting their ceilings early. I just wanted to see 20 passes in a clutch situation 10/18-140 So much is left to the imagination with him. Hard to evaluate him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 22 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I say mix between josh Allen and Zach What about JJ is similar to Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I just wanted to see 20 passes in a clutch situation 10/18-140 So much is left to the imagination with him. Hard to evaluate him Same. It's the unknown. Sure he has traits and could develop further. However, it would have been nice to see him have to win a game for once. Can he get into a shootout with Mahomes and win a game 31-30? Or is he just the guy who can make a couple big throws to win a game 21-17, relying on his defense and running game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 @big_palooka What do you make of JJ's mental game? I was reading a lot of comments about his inability to read D's, locks onto his 1st read, doesn't throw with a lot of anticipation consistently, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: I've said it all season and why I've never bought his hype. He never gets pressured. Never has to deal with it consistently. Washington's offense is gimmicky - did you see the plays where the WR ducks to hide behind another guy? They have a top tier group of WRs that get open and he just has to deliver the ball. He has nice arm and in rhythm can deliver with accuracy. But college accuracy is different than NFL accuracy. You have to be able to make throws when you're getting pressured. Michigan rattled him early, didn't let him get to his spots and he had no answer for it. Until eventually he panicked and through gift INT that sealed the game. I don't trust him to run an NFL offense where defenses are faster and the windows tighter. I don't disagree with some of the critiques but this was like an all-time bad game for him at the worst possible time. I think it'll tank his draft stock too, he's going 2nd round IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 40 minutes ago, NYRaider said: What about JJ is similar to Allen? Running ability and his frame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 17 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I don't disagree with some of the critiques but this was like an all-time bad game for him at the worst possible time. I think it'll tank his draft stock too, he's going 2nd round IMHO. Meh doesn’t take away his body of work Imo but the injury history is legit in a major way. Brought his stock back to earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Meh doesn’t take away his body of work Imo but the injury history is legit in a major way. Brought his stock back to earth. I'd still take him in the 2nd. He is a good QB prospect, but yeah definitely brought him down to earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: We'll see he has been healthy the last two seasons and Tua still went in the top 5 despite a broken hip. I mostly agree. I think (more) people are going to come around to the fact that Michigan's D was just that dang good. There were some questionable throws last night along with some pretty bad officiating, but Washington was still very much in it until Penix whatever he did to his ribs/abdomen. After that, nothing was on target, amd understandably so. He wasn't having a perfect game prior, and I'm not going to pretend that he was. But few QBs have nothing but perfect games against great defenses. Michigan came in with an advantage, too, that DeBoer arguably caused them in the Texas game. Dillon Johnson was already hobbled and Michigan knew hso running ability would be limited. I reamed DeBoer a bit for running the plays instead of bleeding the clock because whatever Johnson's injury was, it wasn't necessary. Michigan was able to hone in on the pass game as a result, and it showed with their coverages and blitzes. Washington's D crapping the bed early in the game only made it worse before it leveled out and became a game....until Penix got hurt. Then it was lights out. My takeaway is Penix's stock doesn't really drop at all in my book. He didn't get to play his best game last night, and a lot of that simply wasn't on him by circumstance. On the flip side.....man I really don't understand the McCarthy hate some people have. Washington's secondary was quietly very good. Jim and the OC knew that, and exploited Washington's weaknesses at DL and LB by running like crazy. As expected McCarthy didn't need to throw a lot. Why is that being held against him? When he did throw, he had some.good and bad ones, but again, credit to Washington's secondary. He wasn't awful and just did what he needed to secure the win. My question is what did people want McCarthy to do? 40 yards and 5 TDs while telling Harbaugh to "Suck it, I'm running my own plays!"? Michigan is OL and RB heavy, and that's not a negative reflection of their QB. They're not running an Air Raid. They're not interested in individual stats or fantasy points. Did McCarthy do anything so amazing last night that I want to catapult him to a lock for a top 5 pick? No. I'd have taken him anywhere from 12 to 20 before the game and he didn't do anything that hurt his stock, imo. Frankly, given that neither team was flat out garbage this year and it was a damn close game until the injuries really derailed it at the end, neither guy really hirt their stock in my eyes. They didn't help it, but they didn't hurt it unless someone just looks at the box scores. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 56 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: I mostly agree. I think (more) people are going to come around to the fact that Michigan's D was just that dang good. There were some questionable throws last night along with some pretty bad officiating, but Washington was still very much in it until Penix whatever he did to his ribs/abdomen. After that, nothing was on target, amd understandably so. He wasn't having a perfect game prior, and I'm not going to pretend that he was. But few QBs have nothing but perfect games against great defenses. Michigan came in with an advantage, too, that DeBoer arguably caused them in the Texas game. Dillon Johnson was already hobbled and Michigan knew hso running ability would be limited. I reamed DeBoer a bit for running the plays instead of bleeding the clock because whatever Johnson's injury was, it wasn't necessary. Michigan was able to hone in on the pass game as a result, and it showed with their coverages and blitzes. Washington's D crapping the bed early in the game only made it worse before it leveled out and became a game....until Penix got hurt. Then it was lights out. My takeaway is Penix's stock doesn't really drop at all in my book. He didn't get to play his best game last night, and a lot of that simply wasn't on him by circumstance. On the flip side.....man I really don't understand the McCarthy hate some people have. Washington's secondary was quietly very good. Jim and the OC knew that, and exploited Washington's weaknesses at DL and LB by running like crazy. As expected McCarthy didn't need to throw a lot. Why is that being held against him? When he did throw, he had some.good and bad ones, but again, credit to Washington's secondary. He wasn't awful and just did what he needed to secure the win. My question is what did people want McCarthy to do? 40 yards and 5 TDs while telling Harbaugh to "Suck it, I'm running my own plays!"? Michigan is OL and RB heavy, and that's not a negative reflection of their QB. They're not running an Air Raid. They're not interested in individual stats or fantasy points. Did McCarthy do anything so amazing last night that I want to catapult him to a lock for a top 5 pick? No. I'd have taken him anywhere from 12 to 20 before the game and he didn't do anything that hurt his stock, imo. Frankly, given that neither team was flat out garbage this year and it was a damn close game until the injuries really derailed it at the end, neither guy really hirt their stock in my eyes. They didn't help it, but they didn't hurt it unless someone just looks at the box scores. This plus I can’t hate on a guy that made it to the championship game. That body of work all season is solid. The injuries tho are concerning penix gutted it out but very legit. That game was odd even before the hits the wrs were off. Give props to mich defense tho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Running ability and his frame Allen is 2 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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