2024 NFL Draft

[NCOUGHMAN]

36 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Allen is 2 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier

I think jj can add weight just like Allen did. When I look at him my eyes see Zach when he throws and Allen when he runs. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

I think jj can add weight just like Allen did. When I look at him my eyes see Zach when he throws and Allen when he runs. 

Allen was 237 at the combine, McCarthy is listed at 202.

Allen is a big boy which is the main reason he has been so effective as a runner. McCarthy going to be in a wheel chair he plays like Allen.

[big_palooka]

 

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

@big_palooka What do you make of JJ's mental game? I was reading a lot of comments about his inability to read D's, locks onto his 1st read, doesn't throw with a lot of anticipation consistently, etc.

He's obviously raw and we have to keep in mind he is 20 years old still. He's still developing. If you want a polished and refined QB, he's not your guy. 

As far as his mental game, I see a smart kid who is a good decision maker. He can lock onto his WRs at times and the way the offense runs, he gets to point and shoot a lot. But that's coachable. 

For the NFL, he's 6’3”, strong arm, good accuracy, smart, instinctive and can beat you with his feet. There are not a lot of these guys. 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

I mostly agree. 

I think (more)  people are going to come around to the fact that Michigan's D was just that dang good. 

There were some questionable throws last night along with some pretty bad officiating, but Washington was still very much in it until Penix whatever he did to his ribs/abdomen. After that, nothing was on target, amd understandably so. He wasn't having a perfect game prior, and I'm not going to pretend that he was. But few QBs have nothing but perfect games against great defenses. 

Michigan came in with an advantage, too, that DeBoer arguably caused them in the Texas game. Dillon Johnson was already hobbled and Michigan knew hso running ability would be limited. I reamed DeBoer a bit for running the plays instead of bleeding the clock because whatever Johnson's injury was, it wasn't necessary. 

Michigan was able to hone in on the pass game as a result, and it showed with their coverages and blitzes. Washington's D crapping the bed early in the game only made it worse before it leveled out and became a game....until Penix got hurt. Then it was lights out. 

My takeaway is Penix's stock doesn't really drop at all in my book. He didn't get to play his best game last night, and a lot of that simply wasn't on him by circumstance. 

On the flip side.....man I really don't understand the McCarthy hate some people have. Washington's secondary was quietly very good. Jim and the OC knew that, and exploited Washington's weaknesses at DL and LB by running like crazy.

As expected McCarthy didn't need to throw a lot. Why is that being held against him? When he did throw, he had some.good and bad ones, but again, credit to Washington's secondary. He wasn't awful and just did what he needed to secure the win. My question is what did people want McCarthy to do? 40 yards and 5 TDs while telling Harbaugh to "Suck it, I'm running my own plays!"?  Michigan is OL and RB heavy, and that's not a negative reflection of their QB. They're not running an Air Raid. They're not interested in individual stats or fantasy points. 

Did McCarthy do anything so amazing last night that I want to catapult him to a lock for a top 5 pick? No. I'd  have taken him anywhere from 12 to 20 before the game and he didn't do anything that hurt his stock, imo. 

Frankly, given that neither team was flat out garbage this year and it was a damn close game until the injuries really derailed it at the end, neither guy really hirt their stock in my eyes. They didn't help it, but they didn't hurt it unless someone just looks at the box scores. 

Agree with most of this except I think Penix hurt his stock. The big question on him is what happens when you pressure him. Michigan exposed him. He was slow processing, looked erratic and miss throws on every level. Especially touch throws an NFL QB needs to make. 

As I posted earlier, Michigan made took the 70/30 balls he's had on the perimeter all season and turned them into 50/50 balls and he couldn't hit them with accuracy. That's the difference in college accuracy and NFL accuracy. 

At a later date.... we can talk about Daniels and his WRs giving him 80/20 balls all season on the outside, but this group isn't ready for that discussion.  

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Agree with most of this except I think Penix hurt his stock. The big question on him is what happens when you pressure him. Michigan exposed him. He was slow processing, looked erratic and miss throws on every level. Especially touch throws an NFL QB needs to make. 

As I posted earlier, Michigan made took the 70/30 balls he's had on the perimeter all season and turned them into 50/50 balls and he couldn't hit them with accuracy. That's the difference in college accuracy and NFL accuracy. 

At a later date.... we can talk about Daniels and his WRs giving him 80/20 balls all season on the outside, but this group isn't ready for that discussion.  

That's the reason why it withheld judgment on him last week. I wanted to see what he would do against prime defensive talent. 

[ronjon1990]

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Agree with most of this except I think Penix hurt his stock. The big question on him is what happens when you pressure him. Michigan exposed him. He was slow processing, looked erratic and miss throws on every level. Especially touch throws an NFL QB needs to make. 

As I posted earlier, Michigan made took the 70/30 balls he's had on the perimeter all season and turned them into 50/50 balls and he couldn't hit them with accuracy. That's the difference in college accuracy and NFL accuracy. 

At a later date.... we can talk about Daniels and his WRs giving him 80/20 balls all season on the outside, but this group isn't ready for that discussion.  

Biggest question I have is what the heck did he do to his leg and ribs? 

I don't want to pretend like he was playing great beforehand or anything, I just think the sample size we got pre-some injury occurring was extremely small against the best D he faced all year. 

To be clear, I don't think Washington was winning that game either way. But by early/mid 3rd Q he was throwing deep balls that looked uncharacteristically like ducks going way way way off target. The types of balls and misses that don't just spring up out of nowhere because the opponent is good (Michigan was indeed the best D they faced this year, but they also didn't face competition so lowly that the difference should have been that stark). 

The few times they got into a groove, you could still see it. The reason I wonder about his injuries isn't to make a blanket excuse though. If he was just banged up and sore.....that's going to happen in the NFL and you're expected to play through and still be effective (to his credit, he played, but he was decidedly not effective). Conversely, if dude was playing with a cracked rib....I think it's a bit easier to digest his performance without being too critical about his overall prospects. 

 

As for Daniels.....man ain't it. Heisman doesn't guarantee NFL success and he just is not an NFL QB. He's taller, but looks every bit as slight as Murray and Young. Unlike them, he's not in a position to bulk up. I think it was you that pointed out him having an ectomorph frame. 100% accurate. He's built like a slim CB. 

You might recall a WR from Ark St a few years back- Dahu Green. Dude was like 6'5 but only like 190. Dude was not bulking up to 210 or whatever, because he was rail thin. That's Jayden Daniels. He doesn't have the frame to say "Oh just bulk up with NFL training regimens". That's like taking Maxx and saying "Oh let's just have him spend the next 2 years beefing up to 300 lbs and have him play DT. He's already proven to be great!"  It doesn't work like that. 

Jayden is far too reliant on his legs and mobility. That's what makes him exciting....in college. He's not a good enough passer to lose any of that mobility and still be successful. He's decidedly smaller than Lamar Jackson, and Lamar is both reliant on mobility and hasn't been able to hold up year to year very well. 

I can't believe anyone is entertaining him as a legit round 1 guy. 

[Geezy]

6 hours ago, Chali21 said:

Thats was also almost 20 years ago. NFL is a different animal. Mahomes sat because the team was good and playoff bound. Same for Lance. I highly doubt this team will be playoff bound next season. The QBs are too suspect. 

that was in reference to Love sitting behind a HOFer, teams would sit talented rookies behind vets until they got their feet under them. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

54 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Biggest question I have is what the heck did he do to his leg and ribs? 

I don't want to pretend like he was playing great beforehand or anything, I just think the sample size we got pre-some injury occurring was extremely small against the best D he faced all year. 

To be clear, I don't think Washington was winning that game either way. But by early/mid 3rd Q he was throwing deep balls that looked uncharacteristically like ducks going way way way off target. The types of balls and misses that don't just spring up out of nowhere because the opponent is good (Michigan was indeed the best D they faced this year, but they also didn't face competition so lowly that the difference should have been that stark). 

The few times they got into a groove, you could still see it. The reason I wonder about his injuries isn't to make a blanket excuse though. If he was just banged up and sore.....that's going to happen in the NFL and you're expected to play through and still be effective (to his credit, he played, but he was decidedly not effective). Conversely, if dude was playing with a cracked rib....I think it's a bit easier to digest his performance without being too critical about his overall prospects. 

 

As for Daniels.....man ain't it. Heisman doesn't guarantee NFL success and he just is not an NFL QB. He's taller, but looks every bit as slight as Murray and Young. Unlike them, he's not in a position to bulk up. I think it was you that pointed out him having an ectomorph frame. 100% accurate. He's built like a slim CB. 

You might recall a WR from Ark St a few years back- Dahu Green. Dude was like 6'5 but only like 190. Dude was not bulking up to 210 or whatever, because he was rail thin. That's Jayden Daniels. He doesn't have the frame to say "Oh just bulk up with NFL training regimens". That's like taking Maxx and saying "Oh let's just have him spend the next 2 years beefing up to 300 lbs and have him play DT. He's already proven to be great!"  It doesn't work like that. 

Jayden is far too reliant on his legs and mobility. That's what makes him exciting....in college. He's not a good enough passer to lose any of that mobility and still be successful. He's decidedly smaller than Lamar Jackson, and Lamar is both reliant on mobility and hasn't been able to hold up year to year very well. 

I can't believe anyone is entertaining him as a legit round 1 guy. 

The foot/ankle came from the center getting bull rushed into the qb. Then the center tried to jump anchor and boom landed all on penix foot ankle. The ribs I have no idea what happened tho 

[big_palooka]

14 minutes ago, Geezy said:

that was in reference to Love sitting behind a HOFer, teams would sit talented rookies behind vets until they got their feet under them. 

Honestly, this would be the best practice. Good organizations are not trying to rush development and benefit from it. I think we'd see a lot better hit rate on QBs if teams didn't force them into action. Especially teams picking at the top with bad Oline play and limited talent. Nearly guarantees they meet adversity early and often. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

I like mizzo and was always impressed by their qb Brady cook. 

[Chali21]

17 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Honestly, this would be the best practice. Good organizations are not trying to rush development and benefit from it. I think we'd see a lot better hit rate on QBs if teams didn't force them into action. Especially teams picking at the top with bad Oline play and limited talent. Nearly guarantees they meet adversity early and often. 

I whole heartedly agree. But the NFL isn’t like that anymore, everyone wants their QBs to be superstars right away. Like Richardson would probably benefit from sitting, but everyone wants that Lamar Jackson impact. Some guys like Luck/Burrow can come in and be impactful but they aren’t everyone. 

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, Chali21 said:

I whole heartedly agree. But the NFL isn’t like that anymore, everyone wants their QBs to be superstars right away. Like Richardson would probably benefit from sitting, but everyone wants that Lamar Jackson impact. Some guys like Luck/Burrow can come in and be impactful but they aren’t everyone. 

With any luck, that thinking will shift seeing Jordan Love develop in their system. 

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

With any luck, that thinking will shift seeing Jordan Love develop in their system. 

True. You just need an all-time great QB capable of winning back to back MVP's for the #1 seed in the conference while you let the young guy develop.

The reality in most situations is that if a first round rookie can't beat out a journeyman veteran for the starting job, it's a major cause for concern.

Edited January 11 by NYRaider

[G]

On 1/7/2024 at 7:30 PM, Humble_Beast said:

We going have to trade up now. I say screw it and trade up to 1

It would take our 1st, 2nd and 3rd just to move to #4. I'd do that now before the draft and hope 3 QB's go in the top 3. Harrison it is. Then wait to see if QB's cool down and trade Adams and our 2nd to get the Jets 10th pick if our QB is there. 

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, G said:

It would take our 1st, 2nd and 3rd just to move to #4. I'd do that now before the draft and hope 3 QB's go in the top 3. Harrison it is. Then wait to see if QB's cool down and trade Adams and our 2nd to get the Jets 10th pick if our QB is there. 

If we drafted a QB. I don’t want the 4th best prospect. I want the cream of the crop