2024 NFL Draft

[NYRaider]

I am fully in the "do whatever it takes to move up for Drake Maye" camp. Even if it costs three first round picks. 

Realistically we should've done it last year for CJ Stroud. It's a lot to give up but having a legit franchise QB instantly changes the trajectory of a franchise.

Would you rather have Tyree Wilson, Alex Leatherwood, and Damon Arnette or CJ Stroud / Drake Maye? Give me the latter all day every day. 

[agarcia34]

Being competitive in games and losing them is the best thing that can happen to this team for the rest of the season. Picking 8 with a realistic shot at getting to the 5th pick by seasons end 

[NYRaider]

Damn he looks good

@Tank4Drake you finally have an avi pic bro bro

Edited December 11, 2023 by NYRaider

[Tank4Drake]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I am fully in the "do whatever it takes to move up for Drake Maye" camp. Even if it costs three first round picks. 

Realistically we should've done it last year for CJ Stroud. It's a lot to give up but having a legit franchise QB instantly changes the trajectory of a franchise.

Would you rather have Tyree Wilson, Alex Leatherwood, and Damon Arnette or CJ Stroud / Drake Maye? Give me the latter all day every day. 

Glad to have another Mayeinite. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, Tank4Drake said:

Glad to have another Mayeinite. 

Caleb is still my favorite prospect but I don't think we can or will get up to #1. If we're picking 5/6 we could realistically trade up with the Cardinals to get to two for Maye. Would be so awesome to finally have a real franchise QB. 

[Tank4Drake]

10 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Caleb is still my favorite prospect but I don't think we can or will get up to #1. If we're picking 5/6 we could realistically trade up with the Cardinals to get to two for Maye. Would be so awesome to finally have a real franchise QB. 

Haven’t had a franchise QB since Stabler imo. I don’t consider Carr a franchise QB (lmaoooo) and Gannon was more of a end-of-career hot streak player who excelled under Gruden’s system and two Top 10 WR’s. 

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I am fully in the "do whatever it takes to move up for Drake Maye" camp. Even if it costs three first round picks. 

Realistically we should've done it last year for CJ Stroud. It's a lot to give up but having a legit franchise QB instantly changes the trajectory of a franchise.

Would you rather have Tyree Wilson, Alex Leatherwood, and Damon Arnette or CJ Stroud / Drake Maye? Give me the latter all day every day. 

As much as I love Maye....

Because the past two regimes, lead by coaches making final say, couldn't draft doesn't mean you resolve to mortgage the future. I'd take McCarthy and three future firsts to build around him.

Edited December 11, 2023 by big_palooka

[Nightmare]

I think we're going to have to wait and see how things play out before we know if we'll be in a position to trade up.

Things to watch:
- How the Bears play, and more specifically Justin Fields. If they win some more games down the stretch they might stick with Fields, and that's one less team to compete with for a QB.
- Same as above with the Cardinals and Kyler Murray. Another team who potentially won't be looking for a QB and are a potential trade partner.
- What happens with the Jets. It sounds like they're going to be heavily in play for Davante Adams to re-partner him with Rodgers next season, and I'd say ideally we want them to lose out as it gives us more potential ammunition to use in a trade up.
- The Titans in general - there's a chance they clean house, and if Vrabel goes, does the next man up want his own QB instead of Levis? Ideally I think we want the Titans to win as many games as possible, 1) to finish further down the draft order than us, and 2) to retain Vrabel who would likely stick with Levis next season.

There are plenty of other things to keep an eye on as well, in terms of hoping bad teams keep winning games to allow us to move higher in the draft, but I think those above are the keys.

Also, can't forget to mention our own place in the mix. We have 4 games left: in the Chargers game we'll go in as favs, and whilst we'll be outsiders at Indy and vs Denver, they are still winnable games too. Only the Chiefs is a guaranteed loss right now. The team (and especially the defense) are playing hard and I can't see us losing out, which will affect our draft position as well.

 

TL;DR - I'm totally on board trading up for one of the best QB prospects in this draft, but there's a LOT to fall into place before we know how likely that possibility will be.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

As much as I love Maye....

Because the past two regimes, lead by coaches making final say, couldn't draft doesn't mean you resolve to mortgage the future. I'd take McCarthy and three future firsts to build around him.

The difference between a good and elite QB is massive, shouldn’t cost too much to move from 5/6 to 2.

[Rich7sena]

Moving up for #1 might be a better option if the Patriots stay at 2.  The Bears will have to weigh a haul of high picks plus Justin Fields vs. selecting Williams/Maye and getting back a day two pick for Fields. If the Patriots stay at 2, they are almost guaranteed to select a QB and it may take more to pry that pick away.

This depends a lot on how Fields finishes the year, who ends up at pick 2, and what pick the Raiders have. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The difference between a good and elite QB is massive, shouldn’t cost too much to move from 5/6 to 2.

Gotta disagree on this. 

With who will be picking ahead of us, the leverage they hold will be massive. 

Unlike some teams that may screw themselves into picking after us, we don't have nearly the amount of valuable trade chips or a strong enough base of a team to justify moving large amounts assets. 

If the Bears or Pats or whoever are willing to move down, picking 5/6 or 8/9 isn't going to matter if going to 8/9 brings in a bigger, better haul as at that point they're conceding not taking one of Williams or Maye. 

Best move is to let someone else duke it out over Mayfield and Darnold or Lawrence and Wilson while we land Allen or Herbert. 

Why dies everyone think it's totally necessary to give up the farm to move into a top 2 pick to find a QB? 

Mahomes went 10th, Allen 7th, Tua 5th, Herbert 6th, Love 26th, Richardson 4th. That's just recent guys. You're just as likely, if not moreso, to wind up with a bust at QB with a top 2-3 (RG3, Mariota, Wentz, etc) or someone super underwhelming (Lawrence, Goff, Winston, etc) as you are a true franchise guy (Burrow). Why give up so much for those odds? 

I'll say it right now, neither Maye nor Williams are going to revolutionize the QB position. Won't happen. At best, neither is as good as Trevor Lawrence, and I hate to break it to you, but if I gave up a haul for Trevor Lawrence,  I'd be pissed at this point.

[Frankie2Gunz]

20 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Gotta disagree on this. 

With who will be picking ahead of us, the leverage they hold will be massive. 

Unlike some teams that may screw themselves into picking after us, we don't have nearly the amount of valuable trade chips or a strong enough base of a team to justify moving large amounts assets. 

If the Bears or Pats or whoever are willing to move down, picking 5/6 or 8/9 isn't going to matter if going to 8/9 brings in a bigger, better haul as at that point they're conceding not taking one of Williams or Maye. 

Best move is to let someone else duke it out over Mayfield and Darnold or Lawrence and Wilson while we land Allen or Herbert. 

Why dies everyone think it's totally necessary to give up the farm to move into a top 2 pick to find a QB? 

Mahomes went 10th, Allen 7th, Tua 5th, Herbert 6th, Love 26th, Richardson 4th. That's just recent guys. You're just as likely, if not moreso, to wind up with a bust at QB with a top 2-3 (RG3, Mariota, Wentz, etc) or someone super underwhelming (Lawrence, Goff, Winston, etc) as you are a true franchise guy (Burrow). Why give up so much for those odds? 

I'll say it right now, neither Maye nor Williams are going to revolutionize the QB position. Won't happen. At best, neither is as good as Trevor Lawrence, and I hate to break it to you, but if I gave up a haul for Trevor Lawrence,  I'd be pissed at this point.

I'm with you on this.  Let the draft come to us and take the best QB on the board.  I don't know enough about the QB's to say that one is better than the other as my research has been brief.  

As you point out there is no sure fire way to know if any of these QB's will be studs or busts.  The little I have watched on Maye he appears to be a top QB prospect but trading at least three 1st's to move up for him our new regime better be 100 percent certain that he will be a superstar that can elevate a team littered with jags into the promised land.  

I would much rather stay put at say 7, keep the draft capital, take the best QB on the board like McCarthy and build a quality supporting cast around him.  We can sign a guy like Minchew on the cheap, sit the rookie and let Minchew take the beating of this team that will be in full rebuild mode. 

The best thing for this franchise at this point is to lose out and clean house.  As you point out is Maye a better prospect than TLaw, no he is not and if we were to mortgage the future for him and he produces like TLaw over his first three seasons our new regime will be toast.  I still like TLaw long term but he has been underwhelming to say the least.  If we were to mortgage the future and land a top three bum like Ol' Crab legs, Mariota, Wentz, JaWalrus etc. this franchise would be set back for another half a decade.  

As sexy as trading up sounds it would not be a wise move unless there is a guarantee the QB that we draft is a superstar.  

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Gotta disagree on this. 

With who will be picking ahead of us, the leverage they hold will be massive. 

Unlike some teams that may screw themselves into picking after us, we don't have nearly the amount of valuable trade chips or a strong enough base of a team to justify moving large amounts assets. 

If the Bears or Pats or whoever are willing to move down, picking 5/6 or 8/9 isn't going to matter if going to 8/9 brings in a bigger, better haul as at that point they're conceding not taking one of Williams or Maye. 

Best move is to let someone else duke it out over Mayfield and Darnold or Lawrence and Wilson while we land Allen or Herbert. 

Why dies everyone think it's totally necessary to give up the farm to move into a top 2 pick to find a QB? 

Mahomes went 10th, Allen 7th, Tua 5th, Herbert 6th, Love 26th, Richardson 4th. That's just recent guys. You're just as likely, if not moreso, to wind up with a bust at QB with a top 2-3 (RG3, Mariota, Wentz, etc) or someone super underwhelming (Lawrence, Goff, Winston, etc) as you are a true franchise guy (Burrow). Why give up so much for those odds? 

I'll say it right now, neither Maye nor Williams are going to revolutionize the QB position. Won't happen. At best, neither is as good as Trevor Lawrence, and I hate to break it to you, but if I gave up a haul for Trevor Lawrence,  I'd be pissed at this point.

This thinking is misguided. Because X QBs failed being picked top 1 and 2, Y QBs will has more to do with the teams that selected them. 

Teams like the Browns, Bears, Jets are QB graveyards. They haven't had franchise QBs in decades. They fail to coach and develop them with any consistency, etc. The successful guys landed in areas they could actually succeed. 

Now, if you want to use that argument with the Raiders, I'm all for it. They have shown no consistency in coaching or player development to make a big move at QB and have you think they are better for it. 

If they Raider take that swing, they dang well better have a HC and staff who they plan keep and a development plan in place to grow a young signal caller.  

 

[Jerry]

I really hope we draft a QB in the first this year.  I don't care if we trade up or down to get our guy, I just want us to find our guy.  

[ronjon1990]

18 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This thinking is misguided. Because X QBs failed being picked top 1 and 2, Y QBs will has more to do with the teams that selected them. 

Teams like the Browns, Bears, Jets are QB graveyards. They haven't had franchise QBs in decades. They fail to coach and develop them with any consistency, etc. The successful guys landed in areas they could actually succeed. 

Now, if you want to use that argument with the Raiders, I'm all for it. They have shown no consistency in coaching or player development to make a big move at QB and have you think they are better for it. 

If they Raider take that swing, they dang well better have a HC and staff who they plan keep and a development plan in place to grow a young signal caller.  

 

I fail to see how it's misguided. It's a statistical fact that QBs taken 1, 2, or 3 over the last decade have largely busted or severely underwhelmed. That's not even a subjective argument. And not every team that has picked a QB 1 or 2 and/or traded up to get there has been a trash organization. 

Trading the farm has virtually never worked out, but it's screwed many a franchise over long term. The only franchises that haven't suffered long term on whiffs like that are Philadelphia (GREAT FA moves, player development, and drafting otherwise under Rosemann) and San Francisco (getting results elsewhere, but let's be honest, if Purdy didn't happen along out of thin air, Shanahan would be pretty toast right now). 

Now, you are right in regard to our foundation. We aren't a team with a rock solid foundation with a staff and front office that have been here and proven themselves before. We're not the Colts with an injured former franchise guy tanking out for the next but otherwise we'll built and ready to compete like they were when going from Manning to Luck. The Panthers tanked for Newton, but they had a relatively solid base despite the coaching change. We're neither right now (and probably won't be short of a Harbaugh hire). 

The problem we have is that we just aren't good. We're not intentionally tanking, we're just treading water right above the tank. Again, the Colts and Panthers tanked. The Eagles were a relatively solid overall team. 

I mean, look at it this way- If we hired a new HC and they wanted to skip on QB this year and swing next year, I would be super skeptical. But, they could otherwise blow me away with drafting and FA and wind up cobbling an 8-9 win season or something in 2024. At that point, you have my trust, swing for the fences and mortgage whatever you feel necessary. 

Unfortunately, we're probably riding into 2024 with a first time HC and even the shiniest of those prospects right now have some warts. More warts than I'd trust to allow to mortgage assets they could well not even be around to oversee the loss of. 

Is it always naturally bad for a team to take a QB at 1 or 2? No. That's not really the point though. 

Is it always naturally bad for a team to trade the farm to move up like some are saying we should? Not necessarily, but it's almost exclusively bad or desperate teams that actually do it, because it's a riskier gamble than savvy GMs amd HCs care, or need, to make. 

Again, we aren't the Colts tanking trying to grab Andrew Luck. 

We're not the Eagles with a solid base moving up for Wentz. 

We're not the 9ers making a dumb move because we have that other stability and track record. 

We're not even the Redskins with a highly regarded Hc moving up for RG3. 

We're the Jets with an extra win or two talking about trading the farm....to probably wind up with Wilson, or, at best, a good QB stuck with aging roster of meh players and little resources to help them grow. 

If someone came in with a 5 year plan and wanted to spend the next 3 doing nothing but getting the team ready for a plug and play top QB pick acquired via mortgage of year 4,5, and 6 assets, I could get behind the idea and take that gamble. But coming in and mortgaging year 1, 2, 3 assets with the roster we'll likely have over the next 2 to 3 years? No way.