Packerraymond Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 5 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: So I keep hearing how Cooper DeJean is an "elite" athlete. I don't get it. He's a CB/S tweener so it seems fair to compare him to all the CBs, S, WRs, and TEs at the combine. How does he stack up? His 4.43 forty was ~25th best. His 38.5" vert was ~30th best. His 10'4" broad was ~40th best. That's not even close to elite IMO. How many of them did their drills a week after being cleared from a broken tibia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 24 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: How many of them did their drills a week after being cleared from a broken tibia? And like Terrion Arnold ran a 4.5 and everybody believes he's still going high in the first and is going to play CB outside in the NFL. I think people were counting on DeJean running a 4.58 or something so he'd be "obviously" a safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, Dubz41 said: But...Gary is 6'5 275 and VanNess is 6'4 270. I just don't see Chop on the Packers board at that size. OK, but those are two different issues. I'm advocating for a peed EDGE rusher. The fact is, none of the three in your post had great college stats, which was your initial point of concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 26 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: How many of them did their drills a week after being cleared from a broken tibia? Ok then let's do this. We draft DeJean and on the first day of practice you line up him, JA, Stokes, Valentine, Ballentine, and Rochel . They all run the 40. He's besting Ballentine and... They all do the vert. He's besting JA and... They all do the broad jump. He's besting.... He MIGHT be able sneak out a bronze medal in the 40 at best. Let the WRs line up too and DeJean isn't even sniffing top 5 in any of those. He's a very good athlete but he's not even close to "elite". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: Ok then let's do this. We draft DeJean and on the first day of practice you line up him, JA, Stokes, Valentine, Ballentine, and Rochel . They all run the 40. He's besting Ballentine and... They all do the vert. He's besting JA and... They all do the broad jump. He's besting.... He MIGHT be able sneak out a bronze medal in the 40 at best. Let the WRs line up too and DeJean isn't even sniffing top 5 in any of those. He's a very good athlete but he's not even close to "elite". Your athlete profile is composed of speed, acceleration, agility and explosion. One category does not define a player. If you are very good in all 4 categories you are an elite athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) ...........But he isn't fast enough..................But his arms are too short. But though he has ok arm length he is a 6'4" OT, etc. All of this stuff comes with riders. Richard Sherman was pretty slow, but he played very well. If you are as good as he was at jamming receivers it goes a long way. DBs and ILB can have what I call 'a-step-in-the-head', they are so fast to diagnose what's going on, they are already on their way while less smart but more athletic guys are still trying to process what they see. Short arms can be compensated for to a large degree if you are very good with your hand-use. You could even argue that a 6'4" OT with decent arm length has an advantage by being low-man more easily. Guys being a little lighter than you like can compensate by having better fundamentals and a deeper understanding of leverage. Etc, etc. RAS is useful, but it isn't everything. On-field tape rules, at least as far as you can make comparisons from what players do in college compared to what they will face in the NFL (which can be very different). Edited April 10 by OneTwoSixFive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Does this tidbit changes things for you all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, Chili said: Does this tidbit changes things for you all? I'd sure try him at tackle and see how he holds up. Problem is that Brugler has him as the 18th best prospect in the draft. There's a strong chance he won't be available to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Your athlete profile is composed of speed, acceleration, agility and explosion. One category does not define a player. If you are very good in all 4 categories you are an elite athlete. I mean his numbers are not in the top fifty in the 40 or top hundred in either the jumps in just the last two years. There's a legit argument he's not even the best athlete if you only take into account white cornerbacks from Iowa in the last two drafts. It's REALLY hard to argue he's an "elite" athlete knowing that but we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I'm not trying to defend RAS scores in general, but if a 9.89 RAS for DeJean doesn't indicate an elite athlete, what does it even tell us about a prospect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: I mean his numbers are not in the top fifty in the 40 or top hundred in either the jumps in just the last two years. There's a legit argument he's not even the best athlete if you only take into account white cornerbacks from Iowa in the last two drafts. It's REALLY hard to argue he's an "elite" athlete knowing that but we can agree to disagree. 4.44 at 200 pounds and coming off a broken leg is pretty damn good. I think he's a at least a very good athlete with outstanding instincts. We'd be lucky to land him at 25. I'm in on this guy .. he's a day one starter somewhere, and has a strong chance to be a standout performer at multiple spots. He's the chess piece I've been wanting for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: How many of them did their drills a week after being cleared from a broken tibia? Fibula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I'm not trying to defend RAS scores in general, but if a 9.89 RAS for DeJean doesn't indicate an elite athlete, what does it even tell us about a prospect? Right. It is the integration of the parts rather than a single stand out measure, which is arguably more informative. It is not the same guys who have a better vert as broad as 40. And many of those guys are much smaller than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: I mean his numbers are not in the top fifty in the 40 or top hundred in either the jumps in just the last two years. There's a legit argument he's not even the best athlete if you only take into account white cornerbacks from Iowa in the last two drafts. It's REALLY hard to argue he's an "elite" athlete knowing that but we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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