Packerraymond Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: OK, Riley Moss is undeniably an elite athlete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) I think the whole argument that DeJean is not an elite athlete is a silly one. Who cares if he's 25th ranked this. 32nd ranked that. It just mean that the cornerback draft class overall is athletically deep that's all. At the end of the day If you show excellent testing numbers despite being "30th best" then you're athletic enough. No need to over-think this. Edited April 10 by Chili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 35 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I'm not trying to defend RAS scores in general, but if a 9.89 RAS for DeJean doesn't indicate an elite athlete, what does it even tell us about a prospect? I really wish there was something like a five or even ten year cut off for RAS. Comparing dudes to 25 years ago is so F'ing completely worthless. I went back to the 1998 and 1999 combines: 13 4.4- forties 8 40"+ vert 2 130"+ broad 2023 and 2024 combines: 36 4.4- forties 30 40"+ verts 37 130"+ broads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I'm reading on the internet things that the Commanders offered the Bears the second overall pick and their first round picks in 25 and 26 for this year's first overall pick. Bears rejected the trade. Man, that's kind of insane value for Williams over Maye or Daniels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: I really wish there was something like a five or even ten year cut off for RAS. Comparing dudes to 25 years ago is so F'ing completely worthless. I went back to the 1998 and 1999 combines: 13 4.4- forties 8 40"+ vert 2 130"+ broad 2023 and 2024 combines: 36 4.4- forties 30 40"+ verts 37 130"+ broads I may be missing something, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the combination of scores along with the height/weight factor. Comparing raw numbers from each individual score is as pointless as comparing numbers from 25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoeDavola Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I'm reading on the internet things that the Commanders offered the Bears the second overall pick and their first round picks in 25 and 26 for this year's first overall pick. Bears rejected the trade. Man, that's kind of insane value for Williams over Maye or Daniels. If that is true, the Bears would be stupid to pass it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaRisMa Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 You can’t have an RAS without the agility numbers so, explain how Dejean has that score? Feels misleading because his agility scores matter a lot at his position! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 24 minutes ago, CrazyJoeDavola said: If that is true, the Bears would be stupid to pass it up. I read it on the internet thingy, so it has to be true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 13 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said: You can’t have an RAS without the agility numbers so, explain how Dejean has that score? Feels misleading because his agility scores matter a lot at his position! It's a weird one .. not sure how all those scores in the 7's and 8's add up to a 9.8 or whatever, but whatever .. pretty sure this guys is a strong athlete overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, wgbeethree said: I mean his numbers are not in the top fifty in the 40 or top hundred in either the jumps in just the last two years. There's a legit argument he's not even the best athlete if you only take into account white cornerbacks from Iowa in the last two drafts. It's REALLY hard to argue he's an "elite" athlete knowing that but we can agree to disagree. I actually don't disagree with you on DeJean not being an elite athlete, but I do think the disconnect in general on this is just about how we all individually define "elite athlete". I'd also agree that without agility numbers, RAS is largely irrelevant; agility scores are far more important to me for DBs than any other individual number besides height/weight. And on that note, I'm also receptive to the argument that it's disingenuous to talk combine numbers with mentioning height/weight. If you only look at players at the combine this year that weight > 200 pounds, his numbers would rank: T-8th in the 40 T-23rd in the vertical T-33rd in the broad Which isn't a ton better, but then let's look at the total combination: if you look at the total number of players at the combine this year that weight 200 or more ran <= 4.43 in the 40 jumped at least 38.5 in the vert jumped at least 10'4" in the broad jump The list is 4 players. Isaac Guerendo, Xavier Legette, Adonai Mitchell, and Brian Thomas - 3 receivers and a RB. So exactly 0 DBs at the combine put up the exact combo of explosiveness and size DeJean did. Now is this super arbitrary? Yes of course. For instance, Dallas Turner put up 40.5" in the vert and 10'7" in the broad jump at 247 pounds, but missed the 40 cutoff by .03 seconds; hard to argue that's not a far more impressive athlete. But at the end of the day, coming off a broken leg, DeJean put up overall explosive and speed numbers at scale that were up there with the top of the group. So basically I guess my opinion is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited April 10 by MrBobGray 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 42 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: I may be missing something, but you seem to be consistently ignoring the combination of scores along with the height/weight factor. Comparing raw numbers from each individual score is as pointless as comparing numbers from 25 years ago. Point A to point B is the same for everyone though. 4.45 at 6'1" 210 is probably a much better score than 4.4 at 5'11" 185. 9 times out of 10 that first guy still isn't catching that second guy though. 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 5 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: Point A to point B is the same for everyone though. 4.45 at 6'1" 210 is probably a much better score than 4.4 at 5'11" 185. 9 times out of 10 that first guy still isn't catching that second guy though. 🤷♂️ Are we talking about athletes, or just about guys that run fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 48 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I read it on the internet thingy, so it has to be true. The Google Machine is never wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Are we talking about athletes, or just about guys that run fast? Just that RAS, as much as I like it is a really general stat and flawed. A guy being bigger scores higher for speed despite being slower. A guy being heavier or at a diferent position scores higher despite jumping the same exact same height or distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isherwood Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: Just that RAS, as much as I like it is a really general stat and flawed. A guy being bigger scores higher for speed despite being slower. A guy being heavier or at a diferent position scores higher despite jumping the same exact same height or distance. I believe the premise is that you are only supposed to compare across the same position group. The RAS scores are built so that Edge rushers are only scored against edge rushers, etc.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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