Old Guy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: A RD3 for Higgins seems about right, the "early" part may or may not be true. I think CIN would take GB's #91 for Higgens in a heartbeat, and GB fans would say it was a mistake. I disagree on Chase. Teams aren't giving premium picks for the privilege of paying the contract you don't want to pay. You mean like the Raiders? Or the Bills? Or the Dolphins? Jamarr Chase will land a boatload similar to the deals I referenced. I get Higgins, but when you are talking about one of the top 2-3 WRs in the league, teams will line up to get him. He's 24 years old, so yeah, there would be a massive market for him if he were to be traded. The reality is the Bengals cannot trade Chase. Higgins, probably moved this off season. Edited April 16 by Old Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 12 minutes ago, Leader said: Seeing this guy's name more and more.... He's an interesting prospect but for me I'd be a lot happier with him at 41 than 25, just because of how raw he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 16 hours ago, spilltray said: And what was the outcome of paying those WR? I'd argue not good. Under both Rodgers AND Favre the offense was better when the position was young, deep, and cheap, rather than with high end WR contracts. Yeah. No. Just no. 2011. Our top 10 in paid dollars was 4 on defense, 6 of offense. (Per an article I just read, neither Spotrac or OTC will let me go back that far without a subscription.) Our failures over those times was our inability to field a competent defense, while investing heavily in that side of that ball via the draft, and via free agency. It isn't like we didn't invest in defense and only went offense, we know the issues we had with the Capers scheme later in his tenure as well as everyone after him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 24 minutes ago, spilltray said: Maybe if instead of paying 10 mil to one guy at the most injury prone position, they had invested in more potential #1 options (we had already seen Dillon want that) instead of being dependent on Jones, that problem wouldn't have happened. Also 12 mil is 1/2 a top wr contract and you usually only have 1 on the field instead of 3-4. Your position is that GB should not have paid Jones his 2nd contract? Do I have that correct? I'm not real sure why you are pointing out the relative value of RB contracts in the sentence after you suggested GB shouldn't have paid it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 The 2011 proves my point. You had Jennings but his contract wasn't top end at the time. Driver was never that expensive and had gotten cheaper clearly in decline, then you had 3 ascending guys on rookie contracts in Nelson, Jones, and Cobb, plus you can call Finley #4. This is better than investing top end contracts in 2 wr and being pushed to feed them, rather than spreading the ball around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 15 hours ago, Scoremore said: Hey don't be underselling my man Bo. MLF's offense is pretty good at scheming guys open. We have really 2 elite guys in Watson and Reed. The other WR's are very very good. Only so much cash to go around and with WR contracts reaching the stratosphere we won't be able to sign them all. Some of these guys we may be able to tag and trade. Recoup some draft capital and reinvest in the position. Can't expect the same kind of drafting success as Gute has had the last 2 years. Damn near hit on all of them. That's rare. Anyway some of these guys will have to be traded no way around it. Think some of these teams are crazy for the money they are throwing around on WR's. Really screwed up the market. Pay your pass rushers, corners, tackles, and the QB. WR is not where you want to allocate large chunks of the cap. Bo Melton is a wonderful Just A Guy. Everyone has one. The difference between them producing and not producing is, scheme, like you said, and opportunity. He got his opportunity via injury and took advantage of it. I'll go this far...he's far from a lock to make it out of camp this year. We have that DuBose kid on the PS who looked strong in his only pre-season game and he may have a lot more upside. But, we love rooting for the underdog, and I do like Melton. Regarding the cap? It's going up, still. Saying we don't or won't have cap is silly right now. We don't know who will be healthy, who will be injured and who will actually produce at levels that warrant re-signing. And we do very much overvalue our own on this board. Who is trading much for the opportunity to actually pay Watson, while he's shown an inability to even stay healthy when he's trying to take a knee??? I like Doubs, but if I were another team, I'd say he's a guy that I can draft in the mid rounds most every year. Melton? Zero trade value. Wicks? Too early to tell if he is the real deal, or the result of the offense and having CB3 or CB4 on him. Reed? One year wonder so far, but he has great upside. As an entire unit, it has tons of potential and promise. But nothing of real substance just yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 4 minutes ago, spilltray said: He's an interesting prospect but for me I'd be a lot happier with him at 41 than 25, just because of how raw he is. I'd be thrilled with Cooper DeJean at 91, but reality gets in the way of that dream. Mims is raw, but uber talented. Those guys don't last until pick 41. I'm not thrilled with him at 25 either because I don't want an offensive lineman in round 1. I would not hold my breath he'd be there at 41. We do extremely well with finding offensive linemen in the middle of the draft. The only reason to get one at 25, is we want a tackle to replace Walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 4 minutes ago, Old Guy said: You mean like the Raiders? Or the Bills? Or the Dolphins? I get Higgins, but when you are talking about one of the top 2-3 WRs in the league, teams will line up to get him. He's 24 years old, so yeah, there would be a massive market for him if he were to be traded. The reality is the Bengals cannot trade Chase. Higgins, probably moved this off season. The "what would the market be for Chase" is not much different than the "what would the market have been for Rodgers" discussion. You can literally make up whatever you want because the trade isn't happening. A Higgins trade seems very possible, and I'll be curious to see the return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Your position is that GB should not have paid Jones his 2nd contract? Do I have that correct? I'm not real sure why you are pointing out the relative value of RB contracts in the sentence after you suggested GB shouldn't have paid it. Jones is good enough in the pass game it's worth taking a gamble at 10-12 mil. At 20-25 it wouldn't be. You only ever have 1 RB on the field at a time. At WR you need to keep a deeper unit that's less top heavy. It's also 2x the contract a high end RB gets for a WR. This is inherently poor value and winning is more about value and efficiency when it comes to a spending point of view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, spilltray said: The Packers WR room is better off right now than the eagles and the rest of the roster is better for it. No. It is not. The Eagles WR room is far superior to ours, just look at the production that they have gotten from Brown and Smith. Real, honest and goodness production. Ours has potential. But it has not produced yet. Not at any level like Brown or Smith. So, our WR room has more potential than the Eagles is a statement I can get behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 So how high is "too high" for a WR contract for those who don't want to overspend. I am genuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: The "what would the market be for Chase" is not much different than the "what would the market have been for Rodgers" discussion. You can literally make up whatever you want because the trade isn't happening. A Higgins trade seems very possible, and I'll be curious to see the return. You can easily point to things like Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson as probable starting points for a top tier QB trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 23 minutes ago, Leader said: Seeing this guy's name more and more.... Makes sense if the plan is to move Tom inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, vegas492 said: No. It is not. The Eagles WR room is far superior to ours, just look at the production that they have gotten from Brown and Smith. Real, honest and goodness production. Ours has potential. But it has not produced yet. Not at any level like Brown or Smith. So, our WR room has more potential than the Eagles is a statement I can get behind. Their top 2 was better but beyond that the cupboard is bare. I'd argue GB 1-5 WR> Eagles 1-5 wr as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 14 minutes ago, spilltray said: He's an interesting prospect but for me I'd be a lot happier with him at 41 than 25, just because of how raw he is. Well yeah, but he's not going to make it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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