vegas492 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 7 minutes ago, spilltray said: The 2011 proves my point. You had Jennings but his contract wasn't top end at the time. Driver was never that expensive and had gotten cheaper clearly in decline, then you had 3 ascending guys on rookie contracts in Nelson, Jones, and Cobb, plus you can call Finley #4. This is better than investing top end contracts in 2 wr and being pushed to feed them, rather than spreading the ball around. Both Jennings and Driver were in the top 10 of the 2011 year. Yes, they were getting paid. Everything is relative. We paid Driver a lot of money, even when he was declining. Then you cite Nelson and Cobb, which again, we paid both of them LARGE. While having an o-line, while paying Rodgers large and while paying a lot of guys on defense. Look. It isn't like this can't be done. We've seen it get done before. Even on our own team. We knew the issue was not talent on defense, rather it was a poor DC. I'm not advocating to pay 3-4 WR's high end deals. But let's not sit here and pretend that salaries aren't relative over the years. You can easily pay 2 of them. The issue is...we have 4 right now who all show great potential. So yes, decisions will need to be made. But those decisions are 1-2 years out and much can change over that time. No sense in worrying about it now. The past is the best predictor of the future. And in the past, we've paid our home grown talent, when it deserves it. Regardless of position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, spilltray said: Jones is good enough in the pass game it's worth taking a gamble at 10-12 mil. At 20-25 it wouldn't be. You only ever have 1 RB on the field at a time. At WR you need to keep a deeper unit that's less top heavy. It's also 2x the contract a high end RB gets for a WR. This is inherently poor value and winning is more about value and efficiency when it comes to a spending point of view. 1 hour ago, spilltray said: Not paying RB has pretty obviously been proven the smart move. What am I missing? CMC himself is on a 16M AAV contract, and I'd call him the gold standard right now for what teams want from a RB. The latest round of FA RB's went for ~13M AAV. Why are we talking about 20-25M? So at 12M, an elite RB's is worth paying? Using this math, where does Jacobs land? Is he on a good contract? He is certainly near the top end of the current RB market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 8 minutes ago, ReasonablySober said: Makes sense if the plan is to move Tom inside. Tell me again how many starts Mims had in college. Then tell me how many snaps he played. When you look at that, he's not a first round pick. We don't really take guys like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Then you cite Nelson and Cobb, which again, we paid both of them LARGE. While having an o-line, while paying Rodgers large and while paying a lot of guys on defense. We weren't paying them in 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: What am I missing? CMC himself is on a 16M AAV contract, and I'd call him the gold standard right now for what teams want from a RB. The latest round of FA RB's went for ~13M AAV. Why are we talking about 20-25M? So at 12M, an elite RB's is worth paying? Using this math, where does Jacobs land? Is he on a good contract? He is certainly near the top end of the current RB market. The reason we are talking about 20-25 is because that's what very good WR make the fact that top end WR is literally double top end RB is relative when you are talking about who to pay high end contracts to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 13 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: The "what would the market be for Chase" is not much different than the "what would the market have been for Rodgers" discussion. You can literally make up whatever you want because the trade isn't happening. A Higgins trade seems very possible, and I'll be curious to see the return. How is the Rodgers and Chase situations similar if the Chase thing, is not happening? The Rodgers deal did happen, unfortunately a little too late IMO. His value obviously diminished every year we kept him. Your post I responded to was pretty emphatic Chase would not get the haul we got for Adams because the market has changed in value for WRs. I disagree with that statement. Now you are stating it doesn't matter because Chase isn't getting traded. Those are two very different takes on the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 52 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: You know what's really weird? The Packers offense was terrible last year while their 10M RB was injured, and they had to depend on the RD2 pick on a rookie deal. And then Gute turned around and gave another RB a big contract. What a fool! Ajd was getting hit behind the line often, and a different OL was making a mental error nearly every play. We were behind the sticks due to penalties (false start, holding) very often. Love still was figuring out how to diagnose presnap and set up his pass pro. It was absolutely a QB and OL problem. Jones was talented enough to be productive despite this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 6 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Tell me again how many starts Mims had in college. Then tell me how many snaps he played. When you look at that, he's not a first round pick. We don't really take guys like that. He's absolutely a 1st round talent, who probably won't be ready to play year 1. Which makes him an easy pass for me. I don't see any way he lasts until pick 41, but it he did, I'd for sure grab him and @spilltray's wish will have been granted. Edited April 16 by Old Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Mazrimiv said: Damn, offenses will be hard to run when no second contracts are given to decent QB's, RB's or WR's All rookies, every year! Guy gets 300 yards? Screw him, someone else can do it for cheaper, flip him for a 7th! Soon we will have 58 picks in the draft and then look out! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieHigh Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 17 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: So how high is "too high" for a WR contract for those who don't want to overspend. I am genuinely curious. This misses the point. The point is that the wrs are more valuable to other teams who lack elite qb play than they are to us, so you let them pay them and take their picks. The more they are "worth" the more trade value they will have. Pay elite offensive tackles and 1 of the 3 IOL spots. Rest of the money goes to defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 10 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Tell me again how many starts Mims had in college. Then tell me how many snaps he played. When you look at that, he's not a first round pick. We don't really take guys like that. They just took a guy exactly like that in the first round last season. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: All rookies, every year! Guy gets 300 yards? Screw him, someone else can do it for cheaper, flip him for a 7th! Soon we will have 58 picks in the draft and then look out! People have become a bit unrealistic in their thought process given how well we played last year with all guys on rookie deals except Jones. Our problem, we hope, is all of those guys keep progressing and are all good enough where we can't afford to keep them all. Time will tell but history says they all won't turn into guys who deserve 20 million + a year. If they do, trade a few of them a year before they hit free agency. Watson and Doubs, that would mean after next season one of them would have to go if they are both, 'that guy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 8 minutes ago, Old Guy said: He's absolutely a 1st round talent, who probably won't be ready to play year 1. Which makes him an easy pass for me. I don't see any way he lasts until pick 41, but it he did, I'd for sure grab him and @spilltray's wish will have been granted. If GB does it at 25, I can see why. From the fan perspective there isn't enough on tape and I don't get to see enough or hear from people who do to feel comfortable with how raw he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 We recently took Gary and LVN, no one can use college production or snaps as a reason GB won't draft someone. We draft traits in round 1. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReasonablySober Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Mims is basically the ideal redshirt. He may force his way onto the field as a rookie, but he doesn't have to play. The Packers are already set with starters across the line. He could take a year, get his body in a better spot, learn the nuances of NFL blocking, and take over in '25 when Myers leaves, Tom kicks inside, and a spot at RT opens up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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